One Time Smoke Screen - Explain this : /

[Shytheed Dumas]

I laid down the biggest smoke screen today, and I would really like it explained. Here are the details on what led up to it:

I drove up to a park to take a few pics for Tanya's calendar. Shut car off, sat a few minutes, started, moved a few feet, and repeated a couple of times. Then we moved about 1/4 mile and repeated a few more times - engine sat idling for the last couple of minutes.

After finishing the pics we got in and started down a steep hill using 2nd gear for braking - the whole time I could smell a burning plastic kind of smell, which I assumed was coming from the Dodge Daytona in front of me.

When I got to level ground I gave a little gas and it laid down the thickest damn smoke screen I've ever seen - hard to tell the color since I was looking at it while driving and in the shade, but it was impressive. And then it was gone - nothing more on the way back to work, nothing driving home, nothing when I took my son to karate. None at start up and none while driving.

So WTF happened????!!!!!!

A couple of things worth mentioning: I had been having blue smoke on start up in the morning, both before and after recent turbo rebuild, but it seems to have gotten better recently (I posted a new thread recently, and people seemed to be thinking valve guides). :dunno: The only other thing worth noting is that I think my AFM is starting to go. There was some oil in it, and last week I had a weird incident: If I took my foot off the gas it would stutter and eventually die. I thought boost leak, but when I opened the hood I noticed that bumping the AFM would cause the engine to rev for a second. I tapped it a few times, and no problem since. Weird stuff happening. Any thoughts?

 

[GrimJack]

Pull off your oil cap while idling, see if there is a fair bit of steam coming out of there. If there is, it's likely blowby, picks up oil, dumps it into the intake pre-turbo, then builds up a fair bit in the IC pipes until you give 'er, then pumps it all through the intake into the engine and burns it.

 

[emiliorescigno]

Pull off your oil cap while idling, see if there is a fair bit of steam coming out of there. If there is, it's likely blowby, picks up oil, dumps it into the intake pre-turbo, then builds up a fair bit in the IC pipes until you give 'er, then pumps it all through the intake into the engine and burns it.

My car does this, right after my rebuild...how is it fixed?

 

[fiyota]

mine does this also... if it's blow-by, not much you can do...

1. Get a catch can and that should stop some of the oil collecting

2. new rings

IIRC... experts please correct me if i'm wrong

 

[j3pz]

will these motors produce that much blow-by? and if they can is that a sign of another problem?

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Thanks Grim. I've suspected blow by for a while now because of the small poof of smoke when I start it up (sometimes), but I'm really curious why I belched out this much smoke all at once. When I say smoke screen, I mean it was major. Could starting/stopping/starting/etc worsen cause more blow by?

j3pz - I don't think much blow by is the sign of a really healthy engine, but the experts will have to speak up on whether a little is normal. Main reasons that I'm aware of are worn piston rings and/or a PCV system that's taking a dump.

Regardless of what's going on, I'm starting a rebuild and I just need this one to make it until I'm done - probably next summer.

 

[IJ.]

Valve stem seals

 

[faithless88]

Well Blue smoke is caused by engine oil entering the cylinder, White smoke is caused by water and or antifreeze entering the cylinder, and Black/Gray is excess fuel that has entered the cylinder.

 

[NgoFcukinWay]

Valve stem seals

Anything else? Cuz I have that problem too. Found like a quart of oil sitting in my intercooler when we pulled the engine. :3d_frown: :nono: When I initially got the car, we wanted to hear the HKS BOV, but instead, we got oil spraying like 5 feet from the BOV.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Looks like it keeps coming back to valve stem seals and/or guides, so it's a good thing I'm working on a replacement. I didn't really have much oil in my IC though.

IJ - any comments on how starting/stopping/moving/idling would have caused such a gigantic plume all of a sudden? Based on the smell prior to the smoke screen, I would have guessed it was more gas then oil...

One really strange thing is that I am not seeing the morning puff of blue smoke anymore, and as stupid as it sounds, the only thing I'm doing differently is backing my car into the garage, which means that it is pointed slightly downhill.

 

[dbsupra90]

yeah valve seals will def cause a puff of smoke at startup. usually the longer it sits, the bigger the puff. what happens is oil leaks down past the seals into the cyl. and collects. thats why it usually is just at start up. bad enough, it could do it while driving.

since not much oil in ic, i doubt blowby. but pulling the oil cap like was said is a good idea.

another thing you may consider is atleast borrowing steve's afm electronics and see if that helps anything.

as far as not doing the morning puff, it could be because it is much cooler in the morning now, or if it is the seals it is leaking in a more forward direction instead of straight down into the cyl. ok, im probably talking out my ass now.

 

[faithless88]

I'm getting ready to do my headgasket on my rolla, getting about a mile long 50ft wide cloud of white smoke till the motor gets warmed up. Actually kinda fun at night kinda just disappear also my rolla is dark blue so it blends in really well.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Dave, Steve's AFM is a Lex, no? I'm going to be running 440's, stock fuel pump and no AFPR for a while, since all of my cash will be going toward my rebuild. Is that a safe combo, or would it run too lean?

 

[dbsupra90]

the electronics for the lex afm and stock are identical. its only the housing that is different. you could just swap the electronics part, it fits right on the stock housing.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

I will be buying Steve's AFM! Thanks.

 

[IJ.]

yeah valve seals will def cause a puff of smoke at startup. usually the longer it sits, the bigger the puff. what happens is oil leaks down past the seals into the cyl. and collects. thats why it usually is just at start up. bad enough, it could do it while driving.

since not much oil in ic, i doubt blowby. but pulling the oil cap like was said is a good idea.

another thing you may consider is atleast borrowing steve's afm electronics and see if that helps anything.

as far as not doing the morning puff, it could be because it is much cooler in the morning now, or if it is the seals it is leaking in a more forward direction instead of straight down into the cyl. ok, im probably talking out my ass now.

Dave: The big clue was it blew the smoke badly after using engine braking for a long time so it's either stem seals or it's pulling oil through the PCV under prolonged vaccum.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Now I get it. Thanks for putting it together for me, IJ.

Truth is, any valve issues really piss me off after spending over $300 on head work when I repaired the BHG only 17,000 miles ago. :3d_frown:

I guess I still need to pull the oil cap and look for steam. I just forgot to on my way home today.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Stopped off this morning and pulled the oil cap: Affirmative on the steam.

There wasn't much to speak of at idle - just a little. When I reved the engine a little there was enough to come out the opening. I wasn't a smoke stack or anything, but noticable.

So, regarding PCV issues: I guess the first thing to do is thoroughly clean the pipes & hoses. If that doesn't show any improvement, then it's probably time for a catch can. Anything else that I should do?

I know an obvious suggestion would be new rings, and they are part of the rebuild I'm working on, but then I expect a fresh rebuild to fix everything.

Also, where is a picture of the PCV system in the TSRM? I think there's not much to it: TB to valve covers to accordian pipe - is that all?

 

[Poodles]

yep, that's it...

if you get a catch can, watch the level in it, don't want it overflowing...

 

[IJ.]

Dumas: If Cletus the head guy doesn't have a plastic stem cover to use while installing the new seals the stem can cut the Lip off and they're as trashed as the old ones from day 1.....