Oil squirter bolt breakage

[ncv6coupe]

10mm head, 10mm threads. The drilled out part with the ball and spring neck down to 8 or less. Which is where it's twisting.

Don't have mic with me, I'm dropping at post office now to return.

The originals and these might not be same metal material. I have picture a couple post up. Originals were zinc coated as well.

 

[Piratetip]

Yeah they don't look the same.
The through hole is also not chamfered.

 

[ncv6coupe]

Way I understand it is zinc coating does provide a smidge extra strength to bolts.

The bean counters in corporate got me beat this time.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Way I understand it is zinc coating does provide a smidge extra strength to bolts.

The bean counters in corporate got me beat this time.

I'd be shocked if the zinc plating added more than 5% strength to a fastener like that.

Your squirters look odd. I'll try to find pics from one of my previous builds. I definitely have pics of the new ones, but perhaps not the old.

I would be very surprised if genuine Toyota parts (critical engine components, none-the-less) had a major quality issue like weak steel or something, but it sure seems like something is off with your parts.

Do you have an inch-lb torque wrench to double check with? I picked up a tekton in-lb unit off Amazon that's been awesome. It was only $40 or something, complete with a molded case.

 

[3p141592654]

The original were most likely zinc chromate (yellow/gold color with rainbow hues). Its toxic, and carcinogenic, so the industry no longer uses it. These days everything is zinc plated, usually with some surface hardeners.

 

[ncv6coupe]

The original were most likely zinc chromate (yellow/gold color with rainbow hues). Its toxic, and carcinogenic, so the industry no longer uses it. These days everything is zinc plated, usually with some surface hardeners.

Except the ones that were shipped to me.

Is it safe to say I should not attempt to take these up to 18lb if I receive same bolt style on my new order?

I'm going to try to borrow an inch/lb wrench from my buddy at the shop. I should have ordered 7 for worst case. I'm just going to ask tuner to put in oil pressure safeguard in tune to shut her down if pressure drop past xx rpm point.

 

[3p141592654]

Except the ones that were shipped to me.

How so? Your new ones don't look like zinc chromate to me? But your original one could be in post #18.

 

[ncv6coupe]

Yeah that's what I meant, I received uncoated, Home Depot quality bolts that all stretched, twisted and were ready to snap if I attempted to go any tighter. The original that I torqued 3 times and the new one is indeed in post #18. Two totally different bolts by design.

The unknown negative variable is the assembly lube, yes just one drop is all I put. I wasn't going gung ho on trying to torque them I just snugged them all up first time but they didn't feel like they were getting tight at all. The first one I tried to really torque is the one that broke and that's when I back tracked to where we are now. But these bolts are weak. I don't see them taking the dry spec and not stretching at the oil release hole. That should negatively affect the opening pressure of the squirter. Under the bolt head there's sort of a pin that holds the spring straight and in place on the ball.

That's my main concern trying to keep the bolt from flexing. But I don't have an extra to test for you guys.

When I get the new ones I'm sure they will be the same. So with the knowledge gained what should I torque them to? The guys at Toyota told me to go 8-9 lb/ft.

 

[3p141592654]

Standard crappy class 4T bolts M10x1.25 should be good for 19 ft-lbs. I would take that and scale by the percentage of material missing from the drilled out passage. So if 40% was removed. then 0.6*19=11 ft-lbs.

 

[ncv6coupe]

Standard crappy class 4T bolts M10x1.25 should be good for 19 ft-lbs. I would take that and scale by the percentage of material missing from the drilled out passage. So if 40% was removed. then 0.6*19=11 ft-lbs.

Lol math rules the world. I'll mic the new ones and make something happen.

This really got me thinking about my strategy when I put my car back together. I antiseized EVERY bolt in the chassis. Ordered all new subframe and control arm bolts except the long upper control arm bolts in front, 121lb/ft Of jdm goodness.

I had to really muscle those tight, they all must be overtorqued since the threads were wet. Oops

 

[andrew_mx83]

The zinc plating itself does not add any strength to the bolt. The plating process however does affect the temper of the steel. High tensile bolts are required by law (in Australia at least) to be heat treated for debrittling after plating.

We can still get gold zinc done here too, I believe it is still chromate but not too sure. We can get black done as well which is also highly toxic. Both cost about twice as much as silver/blue zinc due to the toxicity and materials handling involved.

 

[ncv6coupe]

What part number squirters did you get for your latest build? These ones came from the distrubution center in California.

I think I read you guys down under have a different source for your parts.

 

[Piratetip]

These are the oil squirters I bought:
15703-66010 - VALVE SUB-ASSY, OIL

 

[Piratetip]

Here are the photos of the original 1987 oil squirters I replaced.
These show no signs of twisting.

The wall thickness looks to be about 2.5mm @ the through hole.
Also the diameter is 8.25mm and overall length is 24.2mm.



Unfortunately I am not sure I ever took any photos of the new oil squirters I bought.
Will have to dig through the thousands of photos I have and see.
But I believe I bought them a couple years ago.

 

[ncv6coupe]

Here are the photos of the original 1987 oil squirters I replaced.
These show no signs of twisting.

Yep those look exactly like the originals that I took out as well from my 87.

There are very clear differences in machining between the newer style and these. I bought the same ones you did part number wise at least.

I'm really hoping someone has some pics of the newer style that they removed to check on a engine refresh or bearing swap. Just to see if they did deform as well.

Still waiting on my new ones,".

 

[ncv6coupe]

New bolts arrived, 2 of them already corroded so guess it's safe to say that no coating is applied to these bolts.

 

[Piratetip]

Coating wont matter anyway, its always going to be bathed in oil.

The new bolt design / machining does look different than the originals.

 

[plaaya69]

New bolts arrived, 2 of them already corroded so guess it's safe to say that no coating is applied to these bolts.

I notice that on most newer Toyota's, the bolts come with the chrome like plating. The older ones had a yellowish zinc coating on every bolt which helped a lot to prevent rust. I always say to myself "look at those mint bolts" on those older Toyota's in the junkyard. Even older Honda's used to use that coating on almost every bolt but on newer Honda's the fasteners and bolts rust out faster than ever.

 

[Piratetip]

I could have old vs new coatings analyzed on our SEM to determine composition.
Toyota tended to overbuild everything in the past.
Now that they have been established as a reliable brand they can cut back on cost like the rest.

Old coatings were likely a thicker zinc chromate.
New is probably electroplated zinc.

Though a number of manufacturers specify the same or similar coating specs now.
Specs:
http://marshplating.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MPC_Specification_List.pdf

 

[Jeff Lange]

Original bolts are 15703-42010, replaced by 15703-66010 in March, 1996. Both bolts are spec'ed for 18 ft-lbs of torque. I have used the newer bolts and torqued to 18 ft-lbs many times without any deformation. I would look at your torque wrench.

On the 7M the bolts have the pressure valves in them and are of a banjo style, 2JZ are M6 and the valve is built into the squirter itself, they are very different and not comparable.

Jeff