Oil Leak between timing cover/head patchable?

[mkIIIman089]

Hi everyone,

I've had a slowly growing leak that I could never really pinpoint for quite some time now that seemed to come from just above the water pump near the front of the motor. Now that it has become fairly catastrophic (quarter size puddle when parked), it's pretty apparent that it's leaking from between the head/block/timing cover, on the exhaust side especially. Probably a remnant of the dealer BHG repair done 15 years ago... lets just say it's not the only RTV gasket that was poorly done.

I have absolutely no money, no sign of a BHG or any other mechanical or even electrical issues with the car other than this leak. So I'm curious if there is any (albeit a poor approach) solution out there to at least slow the leak without taking the head off and then having to worry about that expense and hassle.

Thanks.

 

[92TealSupra]

Hi everyone,

I've had a slowly growing leak that I could never really pinpoint for quite some time now that seemed to come from just above the water pump near the front of the motor. Now that it has become fairly catastrophic (quarter size puddle when parked), it's pretty apparent that it's leaking from between the head/block/timing cover, on the exhaust side especially. Probably a remnant of the dealer BHG repair done 15 years ago... lets just say it's not the only RTV gasket that was poorly done.

I have absolutely no money, no sign of a BHG or any other mechanical or even electrical issues with the car other than this leak. So I'm curious if there is any (albeit a poor approach) solution out there to at least slow the leak without taking the head off and then having to worry about that expense and hassle.

Thanks.

When you say on the exhaust side it is burns on there. It's possibility for it to be a CPS sensor O-ring. It is very common for these to go bad and a lot of oil can stat coming out of there. I would also check your valve cover gasket as well. At first i was going to say camshaft seals, and it could be one of those too.

Can you get us any pictures?


-Teal

 

[GrimJack]

In theory, you could pull the front of the engine apart and pull the rear timing cover out from underneath the head while it is still torqued down to the block.

In reality, I suspect that this would be extremely challenging.

 

[*james*]

Same problem here right after I replaced my hg with a mhg. Its the camseals I bet, mine were just not on all the way and I lost almost all my oil within 3 days. So pull the timing cover off, the pulleys (don't drop the pins for the pulleys like I did) and then the black cover behind the pulleys. Seals shouldn't be too pricey if they are bad which they might just have been pushed out a little, still recommend getting new seals though. If that's not it then try the cps, but if its at the front, above the water pump I can almost gauruntee its the cam seals. GL!

 

[92TealSupra]

I would suggest taking the front timing cover off. these seals are a common failure, and new ones are very inexpensive. Would you say the oil leak is runnign down the front and drops off the oil pan below the rear main seal? You truly need to take the cover off though.

This will give you an idea of what the real cause is, and if it is not that you have now eliminated one thing.

 

[adampecush]

In reality, I suspect that this would be extremely challenging.

it really isn't that hard. You just have to remember to apply the FIPG when reinstalling as per the TSRM...or you'll be doing it twice.:sarcasm:

I've done it twice.

 

[92TealSupra]

it really isn't that hard. You just have to remember to apply the FIPG when reinstalling as per the TSRM...or you'll be doing it twice.:sarcasm:

I've done it twice.

It's okay to do things twice, you never forget.

 

[grimreaper]

I was under the impression that the headgasket and head created a bit of compression on the timing cover and the pan. It just slides right out/in?

 

[mkIIIman089]

It's not the CPS o-ring or the CPS. 1st I replaced the o-ring, then the entire CPS because of internal leaks.

Not any seal on the front of the motor, I checked them all, none were leaking more than a tiny seep but I had new ones so i replaced them anyway. No change in leak volume after I changed them.

Not the valve covers, I replaced them and have been monitoring them closely they are not the cause. No change in leak.

Everything above the water pump is dry, all the timing gears/pulleys and inside the outer covers are dry, the water pump is soaked, PS pump is soaked, the right side edge of the timing covers below the top edge of the water pump are soaked, the entire oil pan is soaked, which in turn soaks the subframe and a lot of the engine undercover. The oil pan has also been removed and resealed - made no difference at all. The drip is dropping off the pan right near the center.

So, you can just remove those rear timing covers? I'd have to drop the subframe again and re-reseal the oil pan as well I suppose, but doesn't the head gasket overlay between them? Isn't that why you need to get the cover machined with the block? I've never separated the head so I don't know exactly where everything lays.

 

[adampecush]

I was under the impression that the headgasket and head created a bit of compression on the timing cover and the pan. It just slides right out/in?

Slide is the wrong word to use...it is in there pretty good, and you need to remove all studs and basically peel it off so the rearward edge breaks contact with the head gasket first. Installation is just the reverse, but can be a bit tricky as well.

 

[mkIIIman089]

Slide is the wrong word to use...it is in there pretty good, and you need to remove all studs and basically peel it off so the rearward edge breaks contact with the head gasket first. Installation is just the reverse, but can be a bit tricky as well.

OK, that makes more sense. I was thinking it would be awfully difficult to slide is back on and have it seal properly. The studs are the only thing that aligns the two?

 

[92TealSupra]

I am wondering if your oil sending unit is not tight, or your oil feed tot he turbo is not tight as well. Those are the two different ways that oil can get there, I don't think I can think of anything else unless your oil pan can shoot oil pretty high.

:3d_frown:

 

[adampecush]

OK, that makes more sense. I was thinking it would be awfully difficult to slide is back on and have it seal properly. The studs are the only thing that aligns the two?

IIRC there are dowels...but I could be mistaken

 

[CyFi6]

IIRC there are dowels...but I could be mistaken

That is true, and good luck getting it off any other way besides pulling it strait off, which would destroy your head gasket. And good luck finding a way to cut the fipg seal on the pan as well so you can pull it strait off. I would make sure you know where its leaking from and just pull the head on this one.

 

[GrimJack]

OK, that makes more sense. I was thinking it would be awfully difficult to slide is back on and have it seal properly. The studs are the only thing that aligns the two?

This is why I say that in practice, it's unlikely to match up with the theory.

 

[3p141592654]

Aren't there a couple of oil plugs in the block around that area that could leak?

 

[92TealSupra]

Aren't there a couple of oil plugs in the block around that area that could leak?

NPT plug yes. Those are very in unlikely, but good point, that is another area to look into.

 

[adampecush]

That is true, and good luck getting it off any other way besides pulling it strait off, which would destroy your head gasket. And good luck finding a way to cut the fipg seal on the pan as well so you can pull it strait off. I would make sure you know where its leaking from and just pull the head on this one.

there is really no way of doing this with the pan in place...

 

[jetjock]

NPT plug yes....

In the interest of accuracy they're not NPT...

 

[mkIIIman089]

Grim - I had a feeling, but I figured I would ask the shade tree mechanics on here to see if there was some crazy redneck solution. Looks like I'll have to live with it for a while longer and either get a spare motor and fix this later or tear this one down again and try to fix it - not really knowing what may or may not have been done during the massive engine rebuild more than a decade ago.

adam - good details, thanks!

jet - you like that tire thread I saw popped up in the general section?