O-Ringing 7 MGTE Block
- Thread starter landspeedrich
- Start date
Post i made about this ages ago:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36592
there used to be a pic in it. not anymore. but since it took me like five minutes to find it, i'm still postin it
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36592
there used to be a pic in it. not anymore. but since it took me like five minutes to find it, i'm still postin it
Here's an article I found by searching Google, but no pics of the actual o-ringing:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2885/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2885/article.html
shaeff;1190065 said:^ Alcohol also burns much cooler than gasoline.
and aluminum melts at 1220.58F...just a tad lower than copper...
Figgie, by your logic, the head should be melting away as time goes on...which it obviously doesn't. If you are heating the copper to the point where it melts, you have some serious cooling system problems.
adampecush;1190379 said:
Please don't assume to know what I am thinking or even worse interpret something I typed to something that is not there, But since you insist (and I am really in a great curb stomping mood today).....
Pure Aluminum does. I would love to see just ONE head which is pure aluminum. On ANY car at any price range to include F1 engines. Yes sherlock, that means 99.9% PURE. Hell, just for this I will take 95%.
While we are on the subject of "by your logic" as you so eloquently put it,
By YOUR logic, that is why copper spark plugs last 200,000 miles without changing! Man I knew those spark plug manufactures where brilliant but that simplistic an answer eluded me until you showed me the light!
figgie;1190397 said:
Heh, I love poking at your posts, and the responses they generate. The problem is while you understand what is going on, the post you made could be (and probably is) interpreted by most in the same manner I did...so I replied accordingly.
figgie;1190397 said:
If you are referring to the melting point by this, find me an aluminum-based alloy with a melting point approaching that of copper. If you are referring to something else...i have no idea what it is.
figgie;1190397 said:
ah, the ninja edit...you and I both understand why copper plugs don't last...comparing spark plug wear to the HG is comparing apples to oranges.
adampecush;1190406 said:
Apparently you don't.
Even you said it, Cu has a higher melting point than Al yet the copper goes away and the Al stays........
maybe in your eyes it is not the same, they are infact the same and part of the same system. The issue at hand, which you do not seem to comprehend, is the very thing that makes my statement above correct.
Aluminum alloys melt at higher temps is what he's getting at (though he could have been a bit forthcoming).
Pure aluminum is too soft to do much of anything with.
Pure aluminum is too soft to do much of anything with.
Poodles;1190432 said:
no need to be forthcoming. Seems like he knows what I am thinking so he should've known.
4U2QUIK
1UZFE SWAP DUDE!!!
Poodles;1190432 said:
many aluminum alloys have silica, which drives the melting point much higher.
it also makes it much much harder.
I've had to machine nearly pure aluminum before and it's no fun. It's gummy, and it's so soft you can press your fingernail into it and leave an impression.
in comparison nearly pure copper is hard enough that you can't leave a fingernail impression. and it's melting point is higher than pure aluminum, but lower than most aluminum alloys such as 6061 and 7075. Also the only common alloy that I know of to raise the melting point and hardness of copper would be berillium.
4U2
Aluminum 6xxx series and 7xxx series still lower than 100% pure copper by about 800 degree F.
The "magic" happens in the none-combustion chamber facing portion.......the water is what keeps the head from becoming a molten puddle and yes, without coolant the head would start to become extremly warped, become annealed and ultimately, melt. That is exactly why ALS is so bad on turbos as the temp reach 2000f when the combustion happens so late in the process. But yet the Al head is still good. Regardless of what has been said here. Copper for HG in a daily street driven car is nothing but pure and simple studidity UNLESS you want to pull the head on an x mile or y hour basis. Goes along the same lines of the "EGR is bad" bullshit that was propagated for a while.
As for the berylium-copper. There is a reason they use beryllium copper valve seats with Titanium valves as it is still soft enough to have some give and not chew the Ti valves. Shame about the cost and machining hazards.....
Aluminum 6xxx series and 7xxx series still lower than 100% pure copper by about 800 degree F.
The "magic" happens in the none-combustion chamber facing portion.......the water is what keeps the head from becoming a molten puddle and yes, without coolant the head would start to become extremly warped, become annealed and ultimately, melt. That is exactly why ALS is so bad on turbos as the temp reach 2000f when the combustion happens so late in the process. But yet the Al head is still good. Regardless of what has been said here. Copper for HG in a daily street driven car is nothing but pure and simple studidity UNLESS you want to pull the head on an x mile or y hour basis. Goes along the same lines of the "EGR is bad" bullshit that was propagated for a while.
As for the berylium-copper. There is a reason they use beryllium copper valve seats with Titanium valves as it is still soft enough to have some give and not chew the Ti valves. Shame about the cost and machining hazards.....
figgie;1190415 said:
So the copper spark plug electrode has no method of heat transfer and degrades...I can't say I disputed this. (you can't argue that the heat of the spark accelerates this process). Are you trying to tell me that a copper head gasket will be overheated by combustion due to lack of heat transfer? It has the block, head, and coolant to transfer heat to...
I see that no matter what I say, there will be some objection, so I'm not going to bother wasting any more of my time with this.
I was under the understanding that "Copper Plugs" were only Copper core I don't believe for a second that the actual electrode is copper or it'd last hmmmm 5 revolutions
IJ.;1190511 said:I was under the understanding that "Copper Plugs" were only Copper core I don't believe for a second that the actual electrode is copper or it'd last hmmmm 5 revolutions
Ian,
you mean like this
http://www.sparkplugs.com/sparkplug411.asp
amazing what a bit of liquid does to a metal!
IJ.;1190511 said:I was under the understanding that "Copper Plugs" were only Copper core I don't believe for a second that the actual electrode is copper or it'd last hmmmm 5 revolutions
Lmao....
4U2QUIK
1UZFE SWAP DUDE!!!
figgie;1190470 said:
i was going off of my head, I don't actually have any reference material here at home. my bad.
as for machining berillium copper, it dosen't have the same hazards as berillium. Something about the copper takes the danger of Berylliosis.
4U2QUIK;1190551 said:
Beryllium is still toxic even when it is alloyed with copper. Not sure what the process is for machining those valve seats aside from maybe throwing some water during cutting.