Not happy with CT26... Turbo Change (T4?) Questions

[Grandavi]

I looked at options and AEM isn't bad, but it isn't what I want for various reasons. Money isn't the issue really, its overall reliability. I pay RCTS to work on my car because I make more working for me than I do working on my car. (its simple finances really. My time is worth more doing work than doing mechanical).

The 60-1 was a stop gap measure because the DriftMotion 57 Trim I had (although it spooled great and felt excellent) was smoking heavily. I bought the 60-1 solely to have a turbo to put on while I sent the 57 Trim back to DM. Haven't heard any word on what the issue was with that failed turbo, but I did get a refund. So, I can't reliably say anything about the current used turbo. It just feels really wrong for the car. Intercooler seems okay, so I am assuming my problem lies in the turbo itself.

My other option is to rebuild a CT26 I have on hand at Alamo turbo here in Calgary and pay about 900 bucks to get a properly built 57 trim. Loved the one I had. Then tune it with the stand alone that I have already purchased (done deal.. so no use thinking about a different path at this point).

You know how when your driving your car.. you just KNOW something is wrong? That is how it is right now. Not exactly certain.. but definitely not feeling proper.

So... I can stay with the CT26 variant... diagnose the turbo I have and/or replace it, or move up to a more modern one which will cost me 2 to 3 times as much for the parts/install. I may just stay with the CT26 variant because all the parts I have currently are made for that path.

Just so I am clear, I am building this car to last another 20 - 30 years (hopefully) and the money I dump into this is nothing compared to what I have paid for buying new vehicles in the past. I just turned 50 and could care less what it takes.. I have a picture in my mind of what I want the car to be.. and its my hobby to get it there. (just happens not to be a cheap hobby.. lol)


I do try to do things smartly. The only times I have got caught stupidly and wasted money is when I "rushed" things while in "reaction" mode. I wanted a 2J upgrade. In the end, I should have got the 2J upgrade. However... while repairing a "tiny problem" I ended up having to rebuild the 7M.. so... I will be happy with my 7M now. (unless something happens and it craters, but so far.. so good)

Thats why I made this thread really. I got the Driftmotion 57 trim to mate with the new engine. Didn't realise it would be a mistake to get it non-local. (normally wouldn't be, but with Alamo sitting right in town.. I should have used them)

So, this 60-1 I have on my car may not be functioning like a proper 60-1 which is why it is acting oddly. People have been making mention that I should have gone t4 with my build because its stabler and easier to make the higher power. Really.. if the price difference between going out and getting a proper 60-1 or 57 trim or putting on a T4 is about 2-3000 dollars, then I just have to consider the overall build. Will the T4 outlast the CT26 variant? Is it better for the engine itself?

Of course.. we aren't talking "bragging rights".. lol.


Regarding 60-1 in an "S" cover.. is that the letter on the face of the turbo? Mine is an "A".

 

[Enraged]

if the actuator is giving you issues, buy a new one. Driftmotion carries them.

 

[Grandavi]

Haven't had a chance to diagnose it yet. I can get an actuator locally... Im trying to avoid DM for now...

of course.. if I didn't have a wife, I would be running a MoTeC standalone..


Was looking at the Boss series.. they look impressive as well. If I cant find anything wrong with the 60-1 I may go that route just so I can keep my DP. The intercooler piping costs are pretty minimal if I have to modify them a bit.

My biggest curse is not doing the work myself. To diagnose the turbo myself is fine, but to pay someone to do it is going to cost $. In the end, it can be simpler to replace a turbo I paid 400.00 for with something "known" to be good and suitable as the swap out costs for a turbo (at RCTS) is roughly 300.00. If I don't diagnose myself, it will be about the same just for that. However.. putting on a new part when the old part isn't the problem just means fishing with money.. something I don't enjoy.

 

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

T04S cover is a 4" in 3" out. My T04E cover is 3" in 2.5" out. I want to say a T04B cover is 2.75" in 2" out. A CT26 housing is closer to a T04B.

 

[fromgehenna]

The stock ct26 and it's variants has never been my favorite turbos. They are not so fast spooling as I would like and have had some reliability issues with them. The compressor side is not the problem it's the turbine side. I think that the desing of the housing and turbie wheel is not the best that Toyota have done. Also the stock exhaust manifold is realy restrictive and since the turbine wheel also is restrictive it causes high exhaust manifold pressure and that causes lots of heat and that leads to cracks in the turbine housing. Also the heat load causes that the turbos turbine side seals starts to leak. I think that ct26 has faulty cooling system. both water in and out are at the same side of the chra and on SAME passage. In my opinion this is poor design. The water passage has separate in and out for strait water flow but toyota does not use it like that..... why?? Well only some toyotas engineer will know.
Since the variants ( 60-1, 57 etc...) mostly modify only the compressor side it could lead even slower spool than on stock ct26. Stock turbine wheel works moderate in 10 PSI range but after that it's out of it's efficiency range and starts to hold back the exhaust gases.

So what I'm trying to say is that throw the ct26 and it's variants away (also the stock manifold) and get a good manifold (T3 or T4) and a turbo (from proper manufactorer) that is build in your power range. Study some compressor maps and get some info/opinion from real turbo expert. Tell him what you want and he will give you some proposals what to have.

My current build is named OldCrappySupra and it's going to be my summer time daily drive. I'm going to use it also for longer trips (summer cottage). My power range is around 310....340hp. My turbo choice was Master Power MP-R 474-3. This is my first Master Power turbo but have only heard good things of them. Here is the spec.



As you can see it's quite a small turbo. Both turbine and compressor wheel dimensions are very close to ct26 but it's the design that is diferent. You have to remember that ct26 is very old turbo.

My manifold is basic T4 manifold that I modified a bit. T4 cause it could be that at some point goint to make this not my DD but my fun car.:biglaugh:



Wastegate is 50mm so good flow since at some point I'm going to need it. Also going to use solenoid valve to control it. Oil feed/drain, water lines and 4" to 3" for intake are also needed.

So it's not that much work and since you have a mechanic you just have to deside what you want.:naughty:

 

[Grandavi]

Yes, generally my thought was to stay with the stock manifold and a CT26, although it is still a peppy car, is not really upgrading properly. If I go T4oe (at the very least) it will give me some mods to do for the downpipe and intercooler and I will have to replace the manifold (which is really cheap right now although I want to find a quality one). I might be happy with a 57 trim or a 60-1 CT26, but turbos have come so much farther. Plus having the external wastegate seems a bit more efficient. (plus it looks far cooler.. lol).

Because I have a 60-1 that isn't doing what I expected, rather than going the easy route of repairing or replacing with another ct26 variant, most would recommend the T4 version. Probably the least headache with the greatest return for the money involved.
I'm guessing that all-in it wouldn't top 4000 if I were to use decent quality parts. I am considering driving to Alamo's shop in Calgary and getting their opinion. They are the best place in Calgary for me to go with turbo issues. Sad that everything in Canada is so much more expensive than in the U.S. though.

I have seen a lot of the T4 manifolds with a "split" as well. I am assuming that is to allow for a bit of flex?

 

[fromgehenna]

4000 USD should get you a very good setup. Here in Finland everything is quite expensive but for me the turbo+manifold+wastegate+dp materials+intake 4" to 3" was around 1800.....1900 USD. Just trow all that is realited to CT26 away and start a new life for your car and for your self. Holset HX35 super or HX40 super is a good choice. In Finland Holsets are most commonly used aftermarket turbo in supras. I got so sweet deal from that Master Power that I could not refuse it.:naughty:

Most T4 manifolds have twin entry (split) flange and it's because of the weldings (easyer to make). If seperate collectors are used when making the manifold then it's mostly singe entry. Twin entry flange just means that you can use a turbo that have twin entry exhaust housing inlet and get the benefits of twin entry. Twin entry turbos are commonly used in smaller capasity engines (1.6 > 2.2 L) but it can get some quicker spool also in bigger engine. Also you can use single entry turbo in twin entry manifold.

Just go to that turbo shop and tell them your need's. :thumbup:

P.S My manifold is a china product but I did modify it a bit. Also did two heat cycles to it so it wont crack in use. Heat cycles should be done to all welded manifolds to release the stress from welding. Stainless steel takes lots of stress when welding so if buying a china sst manifold do a heat cycke to it. After that the flanges usually needs to be straighten.

 

[Beals]

honestly I would check into actuator before dumping this turbo, also if people are saying the S stamp marks a 60-1 and you have an A this could mean you got the 54-1 and it would be worse then the 57-1. (unless your refering to the c26a like a c12a) you MAY or MAY NOT have gotten the wrong turbo. Best to go to a professional and find out what they figure you have. I've had problems with DM as well, they do have a lot of nice parts listed but their customer service is lacking, I put about 3500$ worth of orders in and they forgot to send me a new pipe for my waterpump, denyed it and then my mechanic just re-used the old one. For the intercooler it was a pain in the ass but they definately "talk-up" their products but I can tell now they have very little quality control over custom parts. I wouldn't hesitate to order OEM parts from them though like my master cylinder I had to replace.

 

[Grandavi]

Well, I will fix the turbo one way or another, because the 60-1 only has about 3000 km on it (bought it used, but that's how much mileage previous owner claimed... he lives just a couple blocks from me). I may be looking at the wrong stamping.

This is a photo of the 57 Trim.. it has an A on it. All the CT26's I have seen have "A" on them. (if this is the right spot to look).