No start!! Weird problem...

[ma70torres]

Well, I'm working on an 87 GTE, 5 speed. Its a fresh re-build. The problem i am having is the car will only start as I am releasing the clutch pedal at times. If i put the clutch pedal all the way in she won't start. But as I'm releasing the pedal the car with stumble and in some cases the car will start.
Any direction will seriously help.... Thanks for any :1zhelp:

Oh, and i am sorry to the older guys for being one of the "Help Me I'm broke guys"....

Car info: Bone stock, .40 over pistons, stock injectors(cleaned and bench tested by RC engineering), re-built turbo, stock intercooler pipes. had iridiums but just changed them for coppers(bosch), megan racing d-pipe,no cat, hks dragger cat back. Thats it, OH! and the kitchen sink!!:icon_bigg

 

[ma70torres]

I've been messing with timing back and forth. But she'll only start when i'm cranking and releasing the clutch. WTF!!!

 

[jetjock]

Hmmm. That's powerful queer. I don't see how that can happen, at least not electrically. Are you sure it's related? Jumper the clutch switch and try starting it in neutral with the clutch out. Sounds more like a timing problem. When it starts how does it run? Any codes? Like maybe a 13?

 

[ma70torres]

she runs good. She only boosts about 5 pounds but i'm thinking its because of the boost controller that is turned off.(old school hks B.C.) The only code i'm getting when I jump it is Speedo code 42. Weird... what does that have to do with starting.

 

[ma70torres]

Also, I'm kind not completely clear with tsrm. When to cam lobe is up its no where near Zero on the crank. But if i put the crank on Zero every thing lines up.

 

[ma70torres]

Hmmm. That's powerful queer. I don't see how that can happen, at least not electrically. Are you sure it's related? Jumper the clutch switch and try starting it in neutral with the clutch out. Sounds more like a timing problem. When it starts how does it run? Any codes? Like maybe a 13?

Well I played with the timing. I realize you haven't answered back because the info to set base timing is on the site. But I re set and she started but she ran like crap. Then i turned her off. Tried to get the CPS bolt in the center. Not easy!!!!! Well, 2 hours later all she can do is spit and sputter. I'm setting base "0" on the crank and the cams. It all lines up. I realign the cps. then nothing. Still confused....

 

[jetjock]

I haven't answered because I didn't see it although I must admit people who constantly refer to inanimate objects in the female vernacular creep me out in a big way.

First it runs good and then bad? Which is it? Line the crank, cams, and CPS up on their marks and install the belt. Getting the bolt centered is easy. Just bias it off one tooth and it should center as it goes it. Time it afterwards if you can get it to run. If not the starting/clutch thing doesn't make sense so look elsewhere. The code 42 isn't involved either.

 

[ma70torres]

I haven't answered because I didn't see it although I must admit people who constantly refer to inanimate objects in the female vernacular creep me out in a big way.

First it runs good and then bad? Which is it? Line the crank, cams, and CPS up on their marks and install the belt. Getting the bolt centered is easy. Just bias it off one tooth and it should center as it goes it. Time it afterwards if you can get it to run. If not the starting/clutch thing doesn't make sense so look elsewhere. The code 42 isn't involved either.

Sorry, I alway refer my cars as females. Just Habit!! Plus, I'm a former Marine. I am crazy... lol

OK, yesterday the car started with me just changing the plugs. That was once..
Now, I reset timing and it started up. But it was bogging out. I would hit the throttle and it would die. then I would start it back up. Like nothing.. that was two hours and half hour ago. Now it won't start at all.

ok, your right the start clutch thing isn't it. first it was timing. but i'll set every thing back too "0" again right now. Q: would a bad AFM cause my symptom? hey thanks for the help...:icon_bigg

 

[jetjock]

You'll *never* be a former Marine. Didn't they teach you that?

A bad afm could cause your symptom. It and the CPS are the two most important signals in the EFI system. The engine should still start with a bad afm though. Try unplugging it. It should start and even be drivable. Some will disagree but if everything is working right (especially the TPS) it's true. I can start and drive my car around all day long with the afm unplugged. I can't expect much performance though.

 

[ma70torres]

You'll *never* be a former Marine. Didn't they teach you that?

A bad afm could cause your symptom. It and the CPS are the two most important signals in the EFI system. The engine should still start with a bad afm though. Try unplugging it. It should start and even be drivable. Some will disagree but if everything is working right (especially the TPS) it's true. I can start and drive my car around all day long with the afm unplugged. I can't expect much performance though.

some how i knew you'd catch that
well I'm done. its on TDC, the crank is on zero, the cams are lined up, and the cps looks like the one from the sticky post. It will sputter and rumble. The motor really tosses around!! the RPM needle moves up about 50-100. It will do the same with the AFM connected or not.

Oh. and now i get code 24. and 42 is gone...

 

[ma70torres]

some how i knew you'd catch that
well I'm done. its on TDC, the crank is on zero, the cams are lined up, and the cps looks like the one from the sticky post. It will sputter and rumble. The motor really tosses around!! the RPM needle moves up about 50-100. It will do the same with the AFM connected or not.

Oh. and now i get code 24. and 42 is gone...

this is what my cps looks like...
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c295/shaeff/?action=view&current=cpsalligntext.jpg

 

[jetjock]

Hmmm. Code 24 is AFM related but not the part of it that'd cause this problem. Clear the code and try again. Do you have a mulitmeter? One that can measure frequency?

A fresh rebuild huh. Plug wires/firing order right? All the injectors look OK wiring wise? Vacuum leaks? Code-less problems should not be that difficult to find.

 

[ma70torres]

Hmmm. Code 24 is AFM related but not the part of it that'd cause this problem. Clear the code and try again. Do you have a mulitmeter? One that can measure frequency?

A fresh rebuild huh. Plug wires/firing order right? All the injectors look OK wiring wise? Vacuum leaks? Code-less problems should not be that difficult to find.

DMM? Yes.
I'll reset the codes now.
I did drill out the J-pipe on the fuel line.
Injectors wiring? I'll check...
pistons .40 over...
new plugs, bosch coppers...
firing order 1.6.3.4.2.5. ok?
good fuel just filled it.. 91 octane...
When cranking I can smell fuel..... faint though!! not like its in the engine bay..lol

 

[jetjock]

If you can smell fuel you must have spark. In this engine no spark = no injection. Plus you'd get a code. Assuming the induction system is leak tight it still sounds like an ignition timing or valve timing issue. The CPS pic looks right but I usually set it using the marks on the housing and gear per the TSRM. It looks right though. The cam marks are set straight up? When you installed the belt did you manually turn the engine over a few times and recheck all the marks still lined up? I dunno. I'm tired and running out of ideas.

 

[ma70torres]

If you can smell fuel you must have spark. In this engine no spark = no injection. Plus you'd get a code. Assuming the induction system is leak tight it still sounds like an ignition timing or valve timing issue. The CPS pic looks right but I usually set it using the marks on the housing and gear per the TSRM. It looks right though. The cam marks are set straight up? When you installed the belt did you manually turn the engine over a few times and recheck all the marks still lined up? I dunno. I'm tired and running out of ideas.

she's alive!!!! lol I just disconnected the battery for a bit and it sputtered and jumped. Then started.. wtf? AHAHHAHAAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!!

 

[ma70torres]

This car is going to be the death of me. If it were human being i would have kicked it in the nads by now...

Its idling at 700 rpm and holding. the cps has no cover and its cold out. I have no timing light I'm getting one tomorrow... no codes, just flashing... now i'm afraid to shut it off. it just might not start again...

 

[ma70torres]

Wow, my car hates me.... it was running on its own. Warmed up for about 10min then it cut off. died!! Tried to start again, nothing.... i have some feeling I'm getting closer.... just all i need now is a supra whisper so they can tell me what to do!! lol WTF!!!!!

 

[ma70torres]

If you can smell fuel you must have spark. In this engine no spark = no injection. Plus you'd get a code. Assuming the induction system is leak tight it still sounds like an ignition timing or valve timing issue. The CPS pic looks right but I usually set it using the marks on the housing and gear per the TSRM. It looks right though. The cam marks are set straight up? When you installed the belt did you manually turn the engine over a few times and recheck all the marks still lined up? I dunno. I'm tired and running out of ideas.

Cam marks are up, turn the motor over a few times to ensure the marks line up, yes!!
I thank you again for all the help. Maybe its the CPS. But it checks out. all the resistance values are within spec. but I'll check them again in the morning just to triple check. what else should i check?

 

[ATL88Supra]

ok lets start with the basics have you checked the cluch switch, the switch that tells the car HEY im not in "N" im not gona start, also if your cps was bad it would not start at all, i want to go the way of the afm or vac system
a afm would cause the car to be hard to start but if the ecu detects a problem with it, it will force the car in a limp mode kind of thing and the code light will come on, now this car has all kinds of funky problems that can be fixed by just reseting the ecu its when then problem remains after you do the reset that you still have a problem.

 

[ma70torres]

ok lets start with the basics have you checked the cluch switch, the switch that tells the car HEY im not in "N" im not gona start, also if your cps was bad it would not start at all, i want to go the way of the afm or vac system
a afm would cause the car to be hard to start but if the ecu detects a problem with it, it will force the car in a limp mode kind of thing and the code light will come on, now this car has all kinds of funky problems that can be fixed by just reseting the ecu its when then problem remains after you do the reset that you still have a problem.

Well i reset the Ecu by disconnecting the negative battery terminal. Now i get no codes. The clutch sw isn't it. I jumped it and she still cranks and no start. Last night i reset every thing. ECU, Timing and the cps. Out of nowhere she started and ran for like ten min on its own. Then it warmed up and cut off. Since then still no start. I just got up its 1044am and i haven't touched it. I'm going to work on it in a bit. I have another igniter and changed it last night , but still no start. So i changed it back. Now i'm going to swao out a AFM to see if thats the issue...