No crank, no start...

[ZoomZoomZoom]

WELL, my supra ONLY acted like this when the alarm went off.

I would set the alarm off and go put the key in the ignition and everything would light up and then....

Nothing.

Everything would go out. and i couldn't start it unless i walked away after locking the car. OR locking it and unlocking it from the passenger side.... :\

My car is suffering from the same demons as Setheroos! The Supra gods read my post about how crappy the factory alarm is, so I am being punished!

Knowing full well that my factory alarm is possessed, I locked the car last night. I rarely ever lock it. I unlocked it from the PS door, got in (dome lights are on), put the key in the ignition, turn it and then nothing. All lights go out, no attempt to start. Got out, locked/unlocked the door, got in, no lights, nothing. Popped the hood, checked the battery cables, got back in, car started right up. This morning all dome lights on, turn the key, all lights die, car doesn't even try to turn over.

I have new battery/OEM starter/battery cable. If it was the ignition, then I would expect the dome lights to stay on and the car not start. If it was the alarm, I would expect the car to not crank, but the lights would still work.

 

[Setheroo]

Your smoking gun no doubt.

I haven't seen many Toyota ignition switch failures, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a problem. Heed the advice.

One thing, everything falls off the grid. As in, no power anywhere? Like the battery is unhooked, or it just won't crank now.

The battery could be bad inside. The plates can come loose. Especially when gorillas beat on the battery cable to make it fit over the terminal.

No power ANYWHERE. It is way too intermittent for it to be the alarm... I am thinking that it must be the ignition switch.. I will replace it soon.

Haha, I haven't beaten on my brand new battery... so I know that isn't the problem.

 

[Nick M]

I going to think about this. I deleted a post with a comment that isn't really accurate.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TEWD/MK3/manual.aspx?S=Main&P=36

Make sure you get the EWD for your year. As you can see, there are things hard wired to the battery. Or the fusable links and fuses actually, and not through the switch. But the switch is doing something. It comes back randomly after a while?

After it dies, wiggle the power and ground, with something on and see what it does.

Strange. Your description sounds like when you turn the key to crank, you are grounding the power, and opening a circuit breaker. Except that isn't how the circuit works.

 

[cuel]

Takes about 10 minutes to remove the plastic covers and look at the back of the ignition switch. There's 4 or 5 wires soldered to the back. One should be constant power, one should be power in acc. position, one should be power in "on" position, and one should be power in the start position. I forgot to look at the shop, and I don't have a meter here to test which leads are which. All you need to get the covers off is a phillips tip screw driver.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TEWD/MK3/manual.aspx?S=Main&P=38

That page covers the starting system, and the next few cover ignition.

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Someone please tell me how a bad ignition switch kills power to the entire car.

 

[cuel]

Now that I think about it, there is another possibility. I had a similar situation when I first got my car, and it turned out one of the harness connectors under the driver's side kick panel was loose.

I've had ignition switch troubles on just about every make/model of car. They all had different symptoms, but all had a no start or crank problem. Some would kill power to the entire vehicle, some only to the computer, and others wouldn't do anything out of the ordinary at all. It really depends on what's shorted to what inside the switch, and what it effects.

 

[Setheroo]

I haven't gotten the chance to look at the car today due to a whole lot of rain, but there is something that I have forgotten to mention. Whenever I lose power after going to crank, my radio presets actually delete themselves as if I have pulled the battery out entirely... it kinda throws me for a loop because I haven't pulled the battery off for me to lose memory presets like that...

I have glanced over the EWD and I can't really pinpoint what is causing any of this, but I do still believe it has to be the switch - it is plenty old and I have seen less complicated and newer electronics fail and cause whacky problems.

I am going to pull off the bottom cover tomorrow rain or shine and see if I can't notice anything out of the ordinary - and do a bit of other tests like what Nick was suggesting.

If I am feeling limber - I will even take pics

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

I haven't gotten the chance to look at the car today due to a whole lot of rain, but there is something that I have forgotten to mention. Whenever I lose power after going to crank, my radio presets actually delete themselves as if I have pulled the battery out entirely... it kinda throws me for a loop because I haven't pulled the battery off for me to lose memory presets like that...

I have glanced over the EWD and I can't really pinpoint what is causing any of this, but I do still believe it has to be the switch - it is plenty old and I have seen less complicated and newer electronics fail and cause whacky problems.

I am going to pull off the bottom cover tomorrow rain or shine and see if I can't notice anything out of the ordinary - and do a bit of other tests like what Nick was suggesting.

If I am feeling limber - I will even take pics

My radio loses the presets as well. Its as if the battery has been disconnected.

 

[Nick M]

Someone please tell me how a bad ignition switch kills power to the entire car.

If the crank portion of the ignition switch has a direct ground, or short to ground if you prefer, it would take power from the car. Path of least resistance.

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

If the crank portion of the ignition switch has a direct ground, or short to ground if you prefer, it would take power from the car. Path of least resistance.

Well, I've learned some more today here at my garage. I have lights, I turn the key to acc, everything good. I turn the key to start, there is a loud click and nothing. HOWEVER, the door open light is still lit on the dash. I still have power. I do it a second time, same thing happens, but this time with the loud click I lose all power. Ten seconds later the door open light comes back on. Since it is consistently failing, I am going to remove the factory alarm this afternoon and will post results when I'm done. I was going to do this anyways and now I have more motivation.

 

[Setheroo]

I just finished pulling off the lower cover of where the ignition switch is.. and I was surprised to find that none of my connections looked burnt. The sad part of taking all of that apart was the simple fact that when I went to poke around looking for the problem... I couldn't get it to happen... :nono:

I took a few pictures and these were the only two that came out decently... it is kinda hard to get the right angle..

Oh and how exactly would you replace that switch? All those connections on the back are soldered in - unlike most ignition switches that I have seen where they are screwed in connections. Do those wires just go to a plug further down the line?

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

I can rule out the factory alarm. Not a waste of time because it was well worth getting rid of it. When the factory alarm was out, the loud clicking sound was gone, dead silence when I turned the key. HOWEVER, I never lost the dash/interior lights. I went the jumper route with the factory alarm to leave the connector intact. But the problem has changed. Now when I turn the key, I hear slight clicking sounds and the lights dim. Sometimes the lights go all the way out, but come back quickly. I tried grounding the alarm connector to the steering column in case it there was bad ground in the connector, but I got the same results.

My next plan of attack is to direct-wire the starter temporarily. BTW, this is a brand new toyota OEM starter.

 

[cuel]

Further down the harness there is a plug. Figures you'd get to it, and the problem would disappear. Hate it when that happens.

 

[Setheroo]

Further down the harness there is a plug. Figures you'd get to it, and the problem would disappear. Hate it when that happens.

Yeah, that is just my luck. Used to happen all the time at the dealership to me, and no one else it seemed like...

Once I even had a field tech come in to help me diagnose a really strange problem with a Camry [it would run for literally like fifteen minutes idling no problem, and then just die, and would start back up like nothing ever happened], and when he came in to look at it, he pretty much thought I was on drugs or something because he couldn't find anything wrong with it and it didn't do it anymore... he left and it started doing it again... yep... I never called him back and just fixed it on my own, I wasn't going to make the customer wait any longer [turned up being the ECU btw].

 

[88jspec]

Hey i had a the same problem with my car, come to find out both of the battery cables where corroded inside. replaced the cables no more start issues. if your cables are old replace them, hope this helps....

 

[Setheroo]

Hey i had a the same problem with my car, come to find out both of the battery cables where corroded inside. replaced the cables no more start issues. if your cables are old replace them, hope this helps....

The cables were corroded inside.. by that do you mean that your terminals were corroded - as in the part that fits onto the post, or by that do you mean that the wires that lead say to the engine block were actually corroded underneath the shielding of the wire?

 

[88jspec]

The cables were corroded inside.. by that do you mean that your terminals were corroded - as in the part that fits onto the post, or by that do you mean that the wires that lead say to the engine block were actually corroded underneath the shielding of the wire?

Yes that's right inside the shielded wire, the wire was old and corrosion was built up inside. the outside you can see the corrsion and clean it but inside you would have to strip back the shielded part. not sure how your terminal ends are made, but mines where open so i could see the strands of wire. good luck...

 

[88jspec]

Not sure if you have did this, but if you have a multi-meter get a true reading from your battery, and also if you can get the car started again check the reading from the alternator...and make sure that starter is good (sometime they work and sometime they don't), take your time you will get it...

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Update on my car -

At my boss' needling, I attempted to jumpstart the sup off of my altima. It started. I drove it around the block a couple of times and returned to the garage. Turned it off, attempted to start it, only got clicks. However, I did not run the car very long at all, maybe 10 mins tops. I'm going to sLowe's tomorrow to pick up a battery pack, and I will do further testing.

At this time, I am not doing the 30 amp wiring mod to the starter. IMHO, if the mod was needed then the car wouldn't have started regardless of the jumped battery. Right now, the factory alarm appears to be the culprit. And its gone. And I don't have to learn the words to "Baa baa black sheep".

Setheroo - my sup's battery was less than a year old, and was the best one I could get for the car. The dash lights and headlights are bright, but its not handling the load. I will post another update when I learn more.

 

[Setheroo]

I looked into my problem some more today, and couldn't get it to happen for me once again...

I don't understand it - I know that my problem isn't gone simply because I took off some of my trim pieces and reinstalled them... lol.

My battery isn't even a month old yet, and I have a multi-meter and all of that and have already checked everything I know to check... which is quite a lot in fact - I have my ASE for electrical and actually consider it to be one of my strongest suits when it comes to cars.