New PS pump, really hard steering

[GilTheArtist]

Heres the deal:
87 supra 7mgte auto

Hasnt been on the road since Feb.
Been fixing lots of different things, mainly the timing belt.

Replaced PS pump with reman pump from autozone. New belt, nice and taut. Pulley spinning normally, no slips. Both idle-up vacuum lines connected.
Bled it in the normal fashion, cap off, filled with Dexron III, turn lock to lock until no more bubbles. Steering still tough but figured it was normal for breaking in a new pump.

Finally about to take it out of the driveway today when i noticed i have no power steering and it takes both arms to force it lock to lock.

There is NO NOISE, NO WHINE.
There is NO FOAM, NO BUBBLES.
resevoir is topped off, again full of ATF.
There are NO LEAKS.
New hoses to resevoir, 1.5 yr old pressure line.
There is NO fluid spilling out when cap is off.


Ive read that some cars have a bleeder valve on the steering rack, is this the case on our mk3s?
Does anyone have any bright ideas?

Please read entire post before replying. Thanks guys.

 

[plaaya69]

I have never seen a bleeder valve on the steering rack. If you are 100% sure your belt it tight and filled with the proper amount of automatic transmission fluid then I would say it sounds like you may have a bad pump. It would probably void your warranty if you do decide to take it back to Auto Zone but if you don't then you can take off the 4 bolts on the back on the pump and inspect the vanes and components in the pump. There is a video on YT of a person rebuilding a PS pump for a Supra.


Do you see the fluid moving around in the reservoir at idle or when turning the wheels?

 

[GilTheArtist]

Belt is as tight as i can get it, almost no play, it drank about a quart when first filling it and a little more since bleeding it. I assume there was still fluid in the rack and lines since i didnt drain it all.

Ive spent about the last hour with the front end raised steering lock to lock over & over and it turns like a dream. Absolutely no whining or groaning.
Fluid level rose up a bit to the point of dribbling over the rim, but no bubbles or foam.
I have to assume theres no air trapped in the system.

As soon as the wheels are back on the ground again i cant get any steering assist at all.

At this point i think i have to warranty swap it to test it that way.
Its so lame because my old pump worked fine, i was just killing time and trying to do preventative maintenance by replacing it before it failed. Now the old one is long gone, turned in as the core.
My car is running great but i cant drive cuz of this steering not working, how the hell can some people drive with no PS belt on there? Im not a weak guy but i cant imagine trying to do anything evasive or even straightening out after a uturn like this.

 

[plaaya69]

I have been driving without powersteering for about 4 years since I have a bad leak in my rack. Great forearm workout as most of my friends say lol. I just rebuilt my pump with a new Gates seal kit for $13 since I am coming up on a big build soon and plan on having everything working like it should. If you do get another remanufactured one and it does not work, try to find a good used unit and rebuild it with new seals.

 

[GilTheArtist]

If i try to flush it with this pump, if the pump is actually defective, thats means nothing would flow from the return line right?

 

[MarkIII4Me]

Do you see the fluid moving around in the reservoir at idle or when turning the wheels?

I'm still waiting for OP to answer this very relevant question.

 

[GilTheArtist]

It had raised up a little once on the ground but not much movement.


Ive swapped out the pump with a warranty replacement, and its def a farcry from the first.
Masses of bubbles and foam this time.
I covered the return inlet with duct tape and set up 4 ft of 3/8 into a milk jug and flushed through*about a third gallon by cranking and filling in 1 second intervals. Then i cut the line to length and removed the duct tape and connected the return.
Bled it off the ground, easy steering.
Dropped the front end and bled some more and out comes this gnarly whining noise.
Still foamy, gonna let it cool and bleed some more later.

Good news is it turns.

 

[GilTheArtist]

After bleeding again today for about 4 hours, and nearly giving up and assuming i had an air leak somewhere, the last 2 bleed cycles were noiseless and practically foamless.*
This may*just be coincidence but the bleeding process*seemed to crescendo or plateau and the foaming seemed to stop decreasing for the last hour. It wasnt until i decided to risk overflowing the resevoir and drove*it around the block then parked that it seemed to be all done. It was those next 2 cycles that were noiseless.

I have to conclude that the other pump was defective, however it is possible that the flush could have cleared an obstruction.*

On a post script, i did also reverse the vacuum lines on the idle up valve, only because of the way it ended up facing after screwing it into the replacement pump until hitting sufficient resistance, and i only noticed this because one side has a flat edge and the other side still had the turbo vacuum line attached to it.
I switched it over just for aesthetics, i thought it to be a 2-way valve, which it very well may not be.

 

[GilTheArtist]

Thread reopened.

Woke up today to see the resevoir nearly drained and after filling, the steering is once again complete shjt. Overflowed with foam the first few minutes, had to drive it a few miles to run errands and it stopped overflowing but still bubbles like i didnt just spend a day & a half bleeding the damn thing.

Im buying a huge drip tray and absorbant to clean whats already on the driveway so i can see if it actually has a magic leak that only loses fluid when its NOT pressurized and running.

 

[GilTheArtist]

Fat leak coming from the pump area, rack is all dry. The only place conceivable is the scrawny Oring for the inlet on top of the pump.
That would also explain the ridiculous 6 hour bleed time.

If i cant find a more suitable Oring ill have to slather ultra black on it and hope for results.

 

[plaaya69]

I am sure any auto parts store or even hardware store will have that o-ring but just bring in yours to compare it to. I personally would not recommend sealer on something that uses a o-ring.

 

[MarkIII4Me]

If you're talking about the oring that goes where the suction fitting bracket fits into the pump, I used to break those all the time. Turns out the bracket can get bent and not seat right on the oring. I removed the pump, mounted then bracked and smacked the return fitting until it was flush with the pump casing. Put in a new oring and no more leaks.

 

[GilTheArtist]

I removed the reservoir and hose to find the inlet tube brimming with fluid.
Meaning that the Oring is sealing, so i used a piece of an10 stainless hose i had leftover and got rid of the silicon hose that was on there.

Thats about as far as i got when the godforsaken portland rain kicked up again.

I did take a peek at the drip pan and saw a small atf puddle forming once again.
I had just cleaned it off after foam spilling out of the reservoir from trying to bleed it solo, which coated fvckin everything with atf.
Hard to say if its more drip runoff from what got bathed in fluid, i wiped everything i could reach dry.

When the rain stops the puddle will tell me more.

 

[GilTheArtist]

Pulled the reservoir with the hose and inlet tube still attached.
No evidence of any leaks from either end of the hose, but my instinct maintained that the oring was definitely too scrawny.

So even though science would say that anything above the leak will leak, and i had already seen the tube full after sitting for a day and the resevoir ran out, i still proceeded with my original plan of using the appropriate oring from the pack, part #80000, and used ultra black gasket maker on the mating surfaces.
I put everything back together and waited a day before adding fluid.
I bled it, and the process took maybe 10 minutes as opposed to the original 2 day bleeding.
I took it around the block, noiseless on any speed above idle, parked it and no atf leaks for about 3 hours now.

Ill update after a few days go by, i intend to drive it normally in the meantime.

 

[Blackmk3]

Likely as hinted back at the start regarding if you can see the fluid moving around inside the reservoir.
Inside the reservoir is a wire mesh screen which acts as a filter, i can guarantee this is blocked so the pump is starving of fluid and cannot build enough fluid pressure to turn the wheels easily.

Remove the reservoir and clean the screen out using a heavy degreaser and a steam cleaner its difficult but eventually it will work, shine through it with a light to ensure its clear. clean it out good and refit. Fit the suction hose to the pump and leave the return hose off, pop a piece of tape over the return nipple on the reservoir and direct the return hose into a waste oil bucket, start engine get a buddy to move steering and you slowly fill the reservoir, the fluid will get pumped around and then into the waste bucket, flushing all the old fluid out and any crud.

Refit system and fill then start engine you will see the reservoir turn into a swirl pot with the fluid moving, top it up as required. it does take a little while to get all the bubbles out, i would always just drive it and check the fluid daily until the level stopped dropping.

However it sounds like you have two issues here and need to fix your leaks first. my method above is to fix the poor steering performance

 

[4U2QUIK]

i SECOND THE BLOCKED MESH IN THE RESEVOIR.

 

[GilTheArtist]

OP UPDATE:

Please read the entire thread before adding a post, it can be confusing for other people.
Just to clarify, we were dealing with 2 seperate pumps. The first replacement was deemed defective. The 2nd was leaking from the ORING on the inlet. The one that came with the rebuilt pump was too skinny to seal properly.

For roughly a month the pump still whined when not accelerating, after slowly improving, it has now has become completely silent and works perfectly