I bought a new OEM toyota oil pump for my rebuild, and i am wondering if i still should shim the oil pump for the xtra pressure, or is that mod for only ""old and tired pumps""?
New oem oil pump, should i still shim it?
- Thread starter 92nsx
- Start date
thats it??? just 5mm?
ive done about 10mm before and didnt really see an appreciable difference so i went to 12-14mm before. the washers were only 3-4mm below the tip of the bolt.
ive done about 10mm before and didnt really see an appreciable difference so i went to 12-14mm before. the washers were only 3-4mm below the tip of the bolt.
well... yeah, i know its a high volume system. but the higher pressure function of this mod means less oil is being bypassed into the pan and more is making it thru the engine itself.
wtf... how?!
what are your oil clearances on the bearings? thats with your oil filter and cooler system right?
what are your oil clearances on the bearings? thats with your oil filter and cooler system right?
IJ is not running a stock oil system...lets call it "heavily modified" 
5mm should be plenty. Keep in mind there is a 2nd relief valve on the stock filter head that opens up at ~40psi and feed the oil cooler circuit before it is routed to the pan. You will not see pressures much above 40 psi due to this.
A 5mm shim should give you 10-15 psi at idle and ~55 psi at 3000 rpm using a 30W multigrade. If you dump the stock filter head and go with a full flow thermostat controlled cooler circuit, your pressures will be a bit better.
5mm should be plenty. Keep in mind there is a 2nd relief valve on the stock filter head that opens up at ~40psi and feed the oil cooler circuit before it is routed to the pan. You will not see pressures much above 40 psi due to this.
A 5mm shim should give you 10-15 psi at idle and ~55 psi at 3000 rpm using a 30W multigrade. If you dump the stock filter head and go with a full flow thermostat controlled cooler circuit, your pressures will be a bit better.
i have. unless IJ is running a dry sump with a scavenging pump and an accumulator and all kinds of neat stuff, my system isnt much different than his.
i have a new toga pump shimmed about 10mm, reset pickup head height, filter relocation, and an FC3S oil cooler (plumbed correctly this time). the only thing i wanted to do but couldnt was do my original -10an oil pump discharge hose.
i have a new toga pump shimmed about 10mm, reset pickup head height, filter relocation, and an FC3S oil cooler (plumbed correctly this time). the only thing i wanted to do but couldnt was do my original -10an oil pump discharge hose.
Ok os i see a lot on 5mm and 10mm of shim, what about 7-8mm then every one is right
What is the diameter of washers used? Inside diameter?
Is the hole in the center necessary?
Im at work right now and can't measure the oil pump, but i am going to make it out of aluminum stock or Stainless Steel stock on the lathe here at work. Any one else need one made since im making them?
What is the diameter of washers used? Inside diameter?
Is the hole in the center necessary?
Im at work right now and can't measure the oil pump, but i am going to make it out of aluminum stock or Stainless Steel stock on the lathe here at work. Any one else need one made since im making them?
IJ is running an accumulator
And a lot of other "neat" mods too.
Like I said, 5mm is plenty. More pressure is not necessarily better...as long as you are getting 10 psi per 1000 rpm. Plus if you shim too much, you risk binding the spring.
I forget the diameter of the washers...as long as the hole in the center is bigger than the hloe in the bolt (yes, it's necessary).
And a lot of other "neat" mods too.
Like I said, 5mm is plenty. More pressure is not necessarily better...as long as you are getting 10 psi per 1000 rpm. Plus if you shim too much, you risk binding the spring.
I forget the diameter of the washers...as long as the hole in the center is bigger than the hloe in the bolt (yes, it's necessary).
I have a bone stock oiling system. I blew my new front main after a hard night of racing. Im just saying that more pressure isnt always better. If you do this you'd better make sure you route catch cans, etc properly and so it can flow enough. Or you will be blowing seals.
none of the seals in the engine are under pressure from the oil pump
you have other issues not related...
you have other issues not related...
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
I've done more than 5mm, not sure it's needed, but I have many other mods as well. (Everything is 10an sized from the pump to the galley.)
IIRC, oil pressure is no longer an issue
IIRC, oil pressure is no longer an issue
to be honest, ive never done ALL the oil system mods on one car.
when i did the oil pump shim, -10an pump discharge and reset pickup head, it was on a motor with the stock oil filter pedestal and cooler.
then when i did the oil pump shim and oil filter relocation and FC oil cooler, i didnt do the -10an discharge hose.
but, when my motor comes out for new bearings, im going to do the discharge hose and double check my shim!
oh and the crank seal problem, was that on a rebuilt motor? if so, someone probably inserted the seal in too far and blocked off the drain-back hole. its a mistake some builders make when doing JZ's. ive seen it myself a few times and had to go back and redo their work.
when i did the oil pump shim, -10an pump discharge and reset pickup head, it was on a motor with the stock oil filter pedestal and cooler.
then when i did the oil pump shim and oil filter relocation and FC oil cooler, i didnt do the -10an discharge hose.
but, when my motor comes out for new bearings, im going to do the discharge hose and double check my shim!
oh and the crank seal problem, was that on a rebuilt motor? if so, someone probably inserted the seal in too far and blocked off the drain-back hole. its a mistake some builders make when doing JZ's. ive seen it myself a few times and had to go back and redo their work.
Anybody know what kind of pressure you will see with 5mm on a full flow system with 10 an lines and relocation kit, with the 10 an pump discharge line? Seems everyone is either close to stock with shims or has the Zues of all oiling systems *Cough*IJ
You guys need to stop focusing on pressure and start concentrating on flow. Shimming the pump and removing the stock filter head will increase flow, but only to the point of the ability of the channels in the block/head have to handle it. Once you reach that point, your pressures will increase rapidly, but you will have little additional flow...pressure is resistance to flow. Think of pressure as flow rate and the size of the channels & piping as flow volume (a simplification)...what you want is more volume. Just removing the stock filter head (and it's associated cooler relief valve), replacing it with a full flow cooler circuit goes a long way in increasing the amount of oil supplied to the bearings, valve train, and oil squirters...you no longer dump part of your oil volume straight to the pan.
Oil pump output (due to gearing) is fixed for a given rpm...output increases as rpm increases. Toyota designed the relief valve to limit pressure at high rpm in order to prevent over pressurization of the system...I've seen at least one guy burst a filter (a cheapo FRAM) due to shimming the pump 11mm. This is a backup function of the cooler relief valve in the oil filter head.
Also keep in mind the primary determiner of pressure is the bearing clearances. Tight = higher pressure, loose = lower pressure. The oil squirters bleed off pressure too...basically they are a controlled internal leak that function at ~40-45 psi. BTW...this is a necessary "leak" if you want to keep your pistons cool
The weight of oil will also affect pressure...a 15W-50 will give you higher pressure, but the high viscosity is the cause due to it's resistance to flow through the bearing clearance...you will actually be supplying less volume of oil to the bearings unless you have modified the motor for it (like IJ did). Using a 0W-30 provides less resistance and you will increase flow through the bearings...you're not pumping a thicker fluid through the same diameter hole.
If you think about it, what determines pressure is inside the block and there are few things you can do to change it. What you want to do is minimize the resistance of the oil flowing to the bearings and squirters to keep the internal parts of the block fully pressurized...full flow cooler circuit (quality components), larger tubing (-8 min, -10 on a big HP motor), and a good filter that's solid construction and flows well. If you really want to go all out, use an accumulator to supply oil at start and as a safety measure if the pump pick-up becomes uncovered due to sloshing. You also want to lower the pick-up in the pan to where it clears the pan bottom 1/4"-1/2".
This is a good read...arz did a test as to when the pump relief spring reaches it's max compression...cliff notes: 11mm will not allow enough valve piston travel to completely uncover the bypass hole...the spring will be at full compression at ~13mm.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=601881&postcount=178
This is why I say more pressure is not necessarily a good thing
A 5mm shim is plenty and most of the pressure increase you'll see is at idle, assuming the rest of the motor is basically stock inside. Plus, your oil squirters will function earlier in the power band...that will help keep your pistons cool.
Oil pump output (due to gearing) is fixed for a given rpm...output increases as rpm increases. Toyota designed the relief valve to limit pressure at high rpm in order to prevent over pressurization of the system...I've seen at least one guy burst a filter (a cheapo FRAM) due to shimming the pump 11mm. This is a backup function of the cooler relief valve in the oil filter head.
Also keep in mind the primary determiner of pressure is the bearing clearances. Tight = higher pressure, loose = lower pressure. The oil squirters bleed off pressure too...basically they are a controlled internal leak that function at ~40-45 psi. BTW...this is a necessary "leak" if you want to keep your pistons cool
The weight of oil will also affect pressure...a 15W-50 will give you higher pressure, but the high viscosity is the cause due to it's resistance to flow through the bearing clearance...you will actually be supplying less volume of oil to the bearings unless you have modified the motor for it (like IJ did). Using a 0W-30 provides less resistance and you will increase flow through the bearings...you're not pumping a thicker fluid through the same diameter hole.
If you think about it, what determines pressure is inside the block and there are few things you can do to change it. What you want to do is minimize the resistance of the oil flowing to the bearings and squirters to keep the internal parts of the block fully pressurized...full flow cooler circuit (quality components), larger tubing (-8 min, -10 on a big HP motor), and a good filter that's solid construction and flows well. If you really want to go all out, use an accumulator to supply oil at start and as a safety measure if the pump pick-up becomes uncovered due to sloshing. You also want to lower the pick-up in the pan to where it clears the pan bottom 1/4"-1/2".
This is a good read...arz did a test as to when the pump relief spring reaches it's max compression...cliff notes: 11mm will not allow enough valve piston travel to completely uncover the bypass hole...the spring will be at full compression at ~13mm.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=601881&postcount=178
This is why I say more pressure is not necessarily a good thing
A 5mm shim is plenty and most of the pressure increase you'll see is at idle, assuming the rest of the motor is basically stock inside. Plus, your oil squirters will function earlier in the power band...that will help keep your pistons cool.