New Crusade, or just a anti-Jihad?

lagged

1991 1JZ
Mar 30, 2005
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CtSupra said:
oh, i'm still waiting...

hah. please note that for every "still waiting" post you made i wasnt even logged in.

i wont waste my time explaining why much of what you said in your post i quoted was wrong.

you simply have to pick up a history book to correct your self. im not your teacher.
 

SP 7M

Use your GUY instinct
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MDCmotorsports said:
IF you look at oil, 33% of our oil comes from the US itself. Only 3-9% actually comes from the middle east.
Thank you very much for that MDC. Everyone who says that the war on terrorism is all about oil is extremely short on facts. It's just an implication that so many people try to push on the sheep in America.

We need to start drilling for oil in Alaska in whatever wildlife refuge it's buried under. From what I've seen (not saying it's fact, but what I've seen) what is proposed to retrieve that oil will effect a very minute portion of the wildlife living there. Supposedly there is a lot of oil there and we need to go get it. To hell with what all the naysayers are arguing. That will bring the percentage of the oil we use from the Middle East down significantly and hopefully drop the cost of oil at the same time.

Who's with me on that?

Ken-Wishing death upon countries as a whole is not the answer. You may not have been totally serious, but just in case you were, there's that.

I agree with those who have said that we should stick to fixing our own country's problems rather than dealing with others' so often. I could discuss this for a while or just leave it at my main point. I choose the latter.
 

SP 7M

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lagged said:
people we are all fucked. we are just pawns of the government and the corporations that run it, and these stupid arguments are just taking your mind off of the fact that the government dosnt give two shits about its individual citizens.
Wow, you just totally changed my opinion of you-not that you care, since we're both "fucked," right? That's a really sad way of looking at things and it's way off. Since you believe this, where and when do you intend to move?

Nate-I love reading your posts on political subjects. Keep it up, man.

You know, liberals aren't even totally liberal by definition. Allow me to back that up: "...and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded," "free from bigotry," "Tending to give freely; generous." That came directly from www.dictionary.com, so don't tell me I'm wrong. With that established, the Left needs a new name for its members.
 

lagged

1991 1JZ
Mar 30, 2005
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I agree with those who have said that we should stick to fixing our own country's problems rather than dealing with others' so often. I could discuss this for a while or just leave it at my main point. I choose the latter.
 

kwnate

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Jul 10, 2005
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None of your fucking business
lagged said:
i am on no bodies side. " Liberals--> the enemy " that right there is rediculous. who are the liberals, please tell me? who is this imaginary enemy?
this "liberal" label is a nice catch all for anyone who dosnt directly agree with what you say.

I stand behind my prior post. Liberal is not a label I gave, I just use it to describe a democrat like a conservative is a republican. I don't take offence to you calling my a conservative or a republican if you need to. and its "Liberals--> the enemy within" Just think about what message our media sends to the rest of the world. The insurgents aren't stupid, all they need to do is set a few bombs off a day and get into a fire fight now and then and let the US media run with it. Then a ex marine from vietnam comes out and says we should pull out now, more allies for the insurgents, more fuel for the democrats fire to attack Bush... It's complete garbage.

Another thing, why does FOX news get so much heat for being more middle of the road/right? Every other station is clearly to the left... WTF???

You can have the last word, I'm done :)
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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i dont know whats wrong with fox???
my folks hate fox news. silly parents... :3d_frown: bill oriley is awsome...

Fox has the best coverage, and i think they make the attempt at fair and ballanced.. at least they put some really extreme librals on to try and get the other side.. fox rocks...the others dont even try...they hate bush too. as far as im concerned we elected him and we should support him. the troops are there now, we should support them as well, but at the same time lets not forget that 7.4 million $ per hour cost of war.. we need to "get er done"....

edited.. sp7m i think we need to get off foriegn oil all together...we need look into hydrogen, hybrids..electrics..solar ,whatever..clean burning.

with hydrogen power, fuel can be extracted from water with simple 12 volt battery... the only exhaust emmisions is steam and i think bmw just set speed record for fastest internally combustion hydrogen car ever, 182mph? +-?

http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/h2r_racer.htm
 
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Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Producing hydrogen takes more energy than it makes. (There is no free lunch.)
Most power plants in the USA are natural gas, or coal fired because we are so biased against nuclear power, and have allowed the envrionmentalists to further screw us on stopping dam building as well. No hydro plants, no nukes, and we are left with polluting coal and natural gas. (Here is a funny one, during the Carter administration, the facility in Idaho that studies, designs and tests new reactors needed a power plant. Guess what type they got? Yep, a coal fired plant. It's now the only polluting plant in Eastern Idaho. BTW, this "facility" is huge. There are reactors and processing facilities spread out all over the place, and the worlds first power producing nuke plant is still there. (Along with two of the prototype nuke jet engine designs too.) Interesting stuff if your ever driving between Idaho Falls, and Arco, Idaho.)

Back on topic.
Blowing up the Arabs is not the solution. Finding other sources of oil, and developing them as fast as possible is one solution. The problem is perception. Just like we perceive that oil is mostly from the middle east, when things there go bad, the price of oil is driven up by traders and buyers in a panic of selling and buying.
As we move our supply lines away from this idiot controlled part of the world, we can bring some stability to the supply of hydrocarbons, and let the Arabs figure it out for themselves.
I think if they continue to poke us in the eye however, we need to send in less troops, and drop more bombs/missiles etc. Target their infastructure, and put them back into the stone age. No power, no water and no sewers. No roads. Nothing of any modern town. It would not take long, and the people themselves would rebel against the religious leaders who are telling them to fight. (Of course the propaganda would need to point out that we are acting based on the terrorist threat, and since they support terrorism, they will have no power etc untill these governments supporting terror are removed.)
In the past, blockades have been EXTREMELY effective. You don't let anyone in or out of the enemy camp. (City in this case.)
Post checkpoints, use our night and radar capabilities to close down the areas that oppose us. No other rule than if you try and leave, your shot. If you try and get in, your shot. No warnings. No pardon.
Would not take long to starve out the insurgents in Iraq. Or anywhere else for that matter. (How long are you going to last in Iraq with no running water, food or power?) Not any longer than anywhere else in the world.

Good thing about this is our guys don't get put into harm's way. They just patrol and maintain the perimiter of the blockade. It's not nearly as dangerous as driving a HUMVEE through a clearly hostile town full of hating, well fed and watered insurgents.

We failed to see this in Viet Nam. We let politicians run the war, and our troops morale and well being were put aside for "political" goals. Ultimately the resolve of the people at home failed, and we left in discrace. Has Viet Nam been better for it? Nope, they are about the poorest nation on earth, and countless millions have died. What a victory for them.

Can we solve the problems of the Arabs and Jews? NOT IN THIS CENTURY, and I doubt in any other. They hate each other, and have fed this hate to each generation of children brought up to hate each other. The problem is, these children are now being taught to hate US. This is now becoming our problem, and the only cure is death to our enemies. Hate to put it that bluntly, but if your taught to hate from the time you stopped sucking your mom's tit, no amount of world travel or experiance is going to change your deep set, learned hate. A few will change. A few will survive, but the ones that hate us need to die. Simple in theory, just difficult to do in practice. The ones that hate us, look like the ones that just tolerate us.

That is why the troops coming back from Iraq, Afganistan and other wars like Viet Nam pretty much did not trust anyone from those countries or ethnic groups. They had all watched friends and comrads killed by mothers and children, and other enemies who hated us who looked as innocent as the next guy, but were deadly.

War sucks eh? Killing women and children is not nice, and it's not what I'd like to do, but they are ready to kill me, you and our families and friends. What are you going to do about that? I say nuke'em and get it over with personally.

Keep in mind that North Korea has nukes now. And they are crazy MoFo's. They will use them. (Do some quick searches of the crap that has gone on between North and South Korea, and it's amazing we have not rolled into a huge war there again.) I think the Chinese are very much influencing PRNC, and keep them somewhat docile.
Imagine if Iran reveals they have nukes. It's only a matter of time gentlemen. Do you think these nations that hate us to the core are going to sit around and do nothing about their hate?

I hate to be the one who says it, but it's going to take a nuke event in the USA, the greatest act of terrorism yet. (Let's call it what it is, an act of war.) to finally bring us as a nation to our feet, and the cry to destroy our enemies will finally start the end of this conflict. The West v/s Islam. Call it WWIII if you want, but it's going to happen, it's just a matter of time. (And North Korea will be wiped out along with their allies in Islam.) The question is, will China stay out of it, or will we bring about some change there too?
 

Joel W.

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well in the past hydrogen production has been difficult. yes, but new manifacturing prosseses are being developed every day..

Solar Hydrogen Energy Corporation (SHEC Labs) reported that they have demonstrated the production of Hydrogen from water using their proprietary Solar Thermal Chemical Process. The Hydrogen production was accomplished at the APS (Arizona Public Service) Solar Test and Research Facility in Tempe, Arizona on June 8th and again June 28th, 2004. Utilizing the hot Arizona sun and a new Solar Concentrator developed by the Lab, the research team was able to extract Hydrogen from water at a temperature of 850 degrees Celsius (1562° Fahrenheit).

http://www.physorg.com/news384.html

these guys are making it from solar power, so you may want to rethink your statement...
 
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lagged

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Mar 30, 2005
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let me say this then im done in this thread. first of all, i recognize that people do not have to agree on everything, and that dosnt mean they cant be friends. this forum is about a common interest we all have and that says something right there.

second of all, what i see on tv most of the time sickens me. i am extremely lucky to have been born where i was, and to have the opportunities that i do.

what frustrates me is this, i dont trust the government for a minute to be truthful about its agenda. and i see kids my age with families like mine getting killed for reasons we arent really too sure about.

if any of you met me in real life youd probably think im kind of tough, i dont take peoples shit and i have gotten in plenty of fights, its not that i am a tree hugging hippy. but i really dont like to see people getting killed. i dont like to see it on the news, i dont like to see it when hurricanes come and mess everything up, i dont like to see it period. the most important thing on this planet is life. i just think there has to be a way to do things without having an all out war.

IMO our peoples lives are more important than the money the government can make by going to war. but see, thats just my opinion where my stance is that life is more valuable. to the government, money and corporate backing is more valuable.

that is why i said before we are all fucked. where would i go someone asked? i wouldnt go anywhere. i have a nice life, im going to college and am excited about starting my career, nothing is perfect and thats how life is.
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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yes its good to discuss things, even if we disagree. its all progress. i learn things from these discussions, some good some bad, but it all evens out..
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
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Adjuster said:
Well, might work for AZ, but where the sun don't shine all the time, it's not going to be very effective. (At least from what I've seen.)

Also you need to carry alot more hydrogen to get any range in your car at all. (Like 4 times what you carry with petrol.)


ok but im pretty sure the sun rays shine everywhere around the world not just in AZ??. but your right, it does get dark in places almost every night.. but only for about 12 hrs on average..thats just one production method being developed, i can list more... but i stopped with the free lunch..
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
joe w. What I'm saying is your going to have a problem trying to get solar power to work in placed like England, or your home town of Washington on the Western side.

Too much cloud cover for it to be effective most of the time. Also it appears they need a huge collector array to get these 800+ temps your talking about. The technology is suited for a dry, hot place like AZ, but not for anywhere that is not dry and hot.

I've had solar hot water on a house before. It was very nice. Three collectors on the roof, the pump to circulate and store the heated water, and sensors that drained the collector before it froze up. (I think it would dump the collectors if the air temp dropped below 35f.)

This was down in Camarillo, CA, and even there, during the winter, the system would drain out every night, and somedays did not get used much at all. In the end, it was cheaper on the water heating bill, but only barely. (Over more years, it would have been much cheaper, but for the 3 years we lived in that house, it was more expensive actually than just paying for more natural gas to heat the water.)

My friend had a huge system that heated their pool. It also worked great, but was not cheap v/s gas heat in the short run. In the winter time, again, it would dump when cold, so really it did not work for about 3 months out of the year, even in Southern California. (They had to crank up the gas heater to keep the hot tub part warm, and the spill into the main pool from the tub kept the over all temp bearable, but kinda cold I thought.) In the summer, with lots of direct sunlight, the system would divert most of the hot water to the main pool as the hot tub would be too warm actually with just straight solar heated water into it.

My other experience with solar was a house in Driggs, ID. (Near the Grand Tetons.) This home was built with a huge glass wall and lots of concrete on that side to absorb sunlight during the day. The wall was facing due South. During even cold days, the sun would come in, heat up the house somewhat, and at night the concrete would radiate off the heat. The bedrooms were upstairs, and they stayed somewhat warm, but the rest of the house would get down into the 50's most nights. (Dang cold to be running around in anything short of a full housecoat/robe and slippers.) Also in the summer time, this house sucked big time. WAY too warm, even with shades and other things they tried to limit the amount of sunshine coming into the house. In the end, they had a heating bill like everyone else, and even more of a cooling bill when they ran the AC to try and survive the 90's for a few weeks of summer. (Really does not get that warm in Driggs, but -30 is not uncommon, and it hangs out at -10 to 10 above for weeks and weeks during the winter most years.)

I like solar power. My Audi A8 has a solar panel in the sun roof that charges the battery, and runs the HVAC fan when the car is parked. This helps to keep the interior temps lower on hot days. It works great.

I used to work for ARCO Solar in Camarillo too. We made silicon solar panels, and I have a few "blemished" ones that were no good to sell, and were supposed to be destroyed, but found their way into my trunk... LOL These panels were very expensive in the 80's when I worked there, and not much cheaper today, but would charge up a 12v system in direct sunlight pretty well.

If you spent about 100,000.00 more for your house, you could cover the entire roof with these panels, and setup a battery storage system to have power for a few hours each night. Problem is, batteries wear out, so new batteries every 5 years is expensive, and you NEVER get your money back out of the system v/s just buying power off the line. (Thus the reason you don't see houses with solar panels every day.) Most of the panels we made end up running remote signal systems for the railroad and things like that where no power was available.

You have also seen the solar car races right? ON even slightly cloudy days, all the race cars were pretty much very slow, and with a little rain thrown in, they were parked.

I don't know why more cars don't have the solar sunroof. Audi stopped making it for awhile, but now I see it's back as an option on the A8 again. (Totally a good idea on cars.)

I like solar, it's just that hydrocarbon based power is so much faster and cheaper. (You know, like the 7MGTE based power in your car, it's totally faster and more reliable than a solar power based car.) Cheaper to own too.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
On the subject of death. I don't promote death. I just know it's the only answer for people that are taught to hate from the time they are born. You can't completely change someone like that.

Kids that dance in the street when the West dies. They are celebrating our death and distruction. They are excited to see us suffer and die.

I would love nothing more than to just ignore them, limit travel and let the middle east figure it all out for themselves. Problem is they are not content to stay at home, they will gladly strap on a bomb and come calling to your home town or mine. For that, they need to die first. So I don't die for their silly causes.

I agree it's terrible to have our troops killed by these bastards. That is why I advocate nuking them first and just getting it over with. We have the ability to stand off and destroy them, but we do not generally do that. Patrols in Baghdad are totally not my style. Fly around in a helicoptor and smoke'em with rockets and mini guns would be alot safer for our guys. Even better, just pull out the troops and nuke towns where the terrorists are hanging out. We know they are there, just nuke em. Let's not dance in the streets and hand out candy to the kids ok?
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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i agree on alot of what you say on solar, but there are plenty of places on earth with extreme sun. texas, florida, california, mexico austrailia, africa, most of the equitorial countries... chelan for instance averages 286 days of sunshine a year and its hot there... its less than 200 miles from here.. when you start looking at all the power options (wind, solar, tidal power production along with lakes and river hydro production) its totally plausable..

ive read they have a paint out now that acts just like a solar cell.. spray it on, attach the leads and whallaaa... and more advances come every day.. my point is that we should not just scoff at these new technologies. but apply them to daily use..
as an HVAC designer/fabricator/installer i have seen several attempts at solar passive houses and ya they dont work well. for heating and cooling i recomend a geo thermal heat pump, I have installed several of them and they work awsome.. gotta love a 40$ power ,bill dead of winter for 2 months compared to 200 for the same size house with a normal air source heat pump...


but im getting way off topic...
 
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SP 7M

Use your GUY instinct
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lagged said:
what frustrates me is this... i see kids my age with families like mine getting killed for reasons we arent really too sure about.
That statement right there is an all too common one that frustrates me. What is everybody so "unsure" about? What "lies" have people been told about the cause for this war?

For those of you that feel "unsure" or "lied" to, you must all have a very short memory. Way back in September of 2001 there were a handful of terrorist attacks that gave us a reason to go to war. Remember that? Why don't you ask the victims what the cause for this war is? Oh yeah, they're not alive today to tell you...

And for all of you that are simply against war, you need to take a history lesson. Remember when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor? I know that's just one example of more than enough reason to wage war on our attackers, but what the hell were we supposed to do? Sit there and take it? Give a call to Emperor Hirohito and sort things out in a discussion?

Some of you are so exceptionally blind to the obvious that it's disturbing. Wake the hell up and stop denying the facts.

Joel-No thanks on the hydrogen power. My cars run on premium gasoline.
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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just to be clear, as to war, i support the troops, i just dont think we need to be there any longer than nessessary. from what ive seen the job is done and i just want our guys and gals back home... that region (middle east) will never have peace. its against their religion...

SP7M, what if i sold a kit so you could run either gas or hydrogen? and i told you we could fill your tank for half the price of gas with no power loss or ping... then would you consider it.. its not practical with older cars. but new cars it will be. other countries are way ahead of this curve, but our oil companies dont want it to happen.. they should adapt too....