Need Help and opinnions on my rebuild!!!

[bradenman1]

ok so i have a 7mgte with a blown head gasket (shocker ) and valves that have broken loose and are now slapping against the pistons and head, i planned to rebuild the car almost completely with engine rebuild, MHG, intercooler and BOV, oil cooler, and alot more. my problem is i priced a complete rebuild at Driftmotion with upgraded oil pump/oil pan, forged pistons, all machine work, new stock valves (if the head is usable), full arp hardware, 7/8 exhaust stud upgrade, braided internal oil line, and probably more that i cant remember. this was all for 400 whp reliably for everyday use and room to grow if i wanted to. If im going to redo everything anyway would it be more benificial and cheaper for me to swap in a 2jz and build from there??? idk what to do im stuck at this point both seem like good options but idk which way to go.

also i have heard very good things about the builds driftmotion does and all their machine work is well done from what iv read, does anyone have any imput on this or have had an engine rebuilt with them id like to know how your experience was with them before i decide to send my 7mgte off to them or try to sorce a 2j depending on which way i go.

thank you for reading all help is greatly appreciated )

 

[hvyman]

You dont need all the bells and whistles to hit 400hp reliably. What you need is a good strong motor and a proper tune.

If your not comfortable rebuilding it yourself take it to either dm or kiazen. both do great jobs.

All your really need is a stock rebuild with arp head studs and mhg internally wise. After that its the turbo, fuel, clutch, and tune to get you to 400.

 

[bradenman1]

well i wanted all that it wasnt suggested i want to do this once and have everything new and upgreaded from before. and oil problems will be less likely to occure with the upgrades, at the least i want MHG upgraded oil pump, arp hardware and forged pistons. i have a brand new ct26 with less than 500 miles on it that i may have upgraded later on for more power

where can i locate dm or kiazen? i may be tuning down this build as much as i can. i dont mind shipping the engine off as long as the work is quality and is done properly im capable of rebuilding my self i just need a good machine shop with the proper tools to do the job right

 

[hvyman]

Both of them are in cali. But im sure you can find a quality machine shop in texas.

A shimmed oil pump is a plus but going all out on ss lines is not necessary and very costly. If you have the cash go for it. If not just get a quality gasket kit like stone and all new toyota hoses. And for oil just get a full flow t stat controlled oil cooler system which will run you about 500$ along with new oil squiter bolts. Forged pistons are not nessaccary as the stockers can handle 500 with a good tune but forged will be more forgiving. Probe forged pistons are great pistons and are about half the price of all the other name brand pistons.

The stock ct might get you to about 300 and a 57trim could get you to 400 but that is maxxing it out.

If you got the cash upgrading to a t4 mani and like a 61mm turbo with a smaller a/r exhaust housing would prolly be a better idea and with the smaller housing you would get quicker spool.

You will also need a walbro or mk4 pump(better but more expensive), 550's, afpr, lex afm, and a wideband for the fuel and basic tuning.

After that its safc, maft pro or standalone with standalone the best.

Everything adds up and quick, so get what you need first and then buy the goodies later.
Like get your block looked at, order the pistons, get everything machined, order the hg and gasket kit and hoses. Then build it and get what you need top get it running properly and broken in. Engine break in is critical on how well your engine will run.

 

[honeydew]

If you have the money, it really only depends on your philosophy. Are you a purest and would like to keep it a 7M? You will probably spend about the same to build either the 7M or the 2J, other than the cost of the 2J engine.

From what I've seen building my own 2J, the coolant galleries versus the cylinder walls are beefier on the 2J. (More meat between the cylinders and coolant galleries/coolant galleries are shaped differently to resist a BHG.) The 2J has oil squirters aimed at the bottom of the pistons, and the pistons have oil galleries. The 2J has true coil packs with no wires. 2J has bigger valves. Just the few things that really stood out for me. There is more I'm sure.

I got Manley Rods and JE Pistons for my 2J but when I opened the engine up I was really impressed with the quality and strength of the rods and pistons in the 2J, seems almost unnecessary to upgrade. The same can be said about the quality for the 7M. Since your HG blew to the point of damaging valves it could be possible you have bent a rod, warped the head or warped the crank (unlikely, forged crank).

I might be so spoiled and naive to think you can go to the store and pick up a 2J or 7M the same day. I live in Toronto and picking up one of these engines is like getting bread, available and inexpensive. If you do want to rebuild a 7M, I would suggest picking up another one rather than trying to salvage the badly damaged one you already have. (Hypothetically speaking that your head is too warped or that your cylinders have too much scoring.)

Switching the MK3 to a 2JZ-GTE is not a huge deal other than a couple of really pesky details. Like a bell housing, oil pan, ECU and a couple of other frequently forgotten annoyances. A nice little scavenger hunt.....

 

[bradenman1]

there is on close to me that has rebuilt my buddys jeep motor but im not sure if they have a torque plate for the 7m. they said they have rebuilt one before and they have been in busines for 20+ years so maybe they do.

the 550's and lex afm were my next step before the bhg ill probably jump to stand alone eventually also im planning on droping 5000 into the car but it also needs new suspension and brakes to ride smooth this car is my baby and ill have it for life i could never let it go its too sexy

do you have any suggested suspension upgrades like coilovers or tokiko illuminas and what not?

how is the break in process done iv been told a few different things i was told drive the shit out of it and another told me to drive it no boost for about 300 miles change oil with non synthetic then drive it for another 1000 miles change oil again check for metal shavings, then drive it how you want lol then change to synthetic if you want to

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 PM ----------

If you have the money, it really only depends on your philosophy. Are you a purest and would like to keep it a 7M? You will probably spend about the same to build either the 7M or the 2J, other than the cost of the 2J engine.

From what I've seen building my own 2J, the coolant galleries versus the cylinder walls are beefier on the 2J. (More meat between the cylinders and coolant galleries/coolant galleries are shaped differently to resist a BHG.) The 2J has oil squirters aimed at the bottom of the pistons, and the pistons have oil galleries. The 2J has true coil packs with no wires. 2J has bigger valves. Just the few things that really stood out for me. There is more I'm sure.

I got Manley Rods and JE Pistons for my 2J but when I opened the engine up I was really impressed with the quality and strength of the rods and pistons in the 2J, seems almost unnecessary to upgrade. The same can be said about the quality for the 7M. Since your HG blew to the point of damaging valves it could be possible you have bent a rod, warped the head or warped the crank (unlikely, forged crank).

I might be so spoiled and naive to think you can go to the store and pick up a 2J or 7M the same day. I live in Toronto and picking up one of these engines is like getting bread, available and inexpensive. If you do want to rebuild a 7M, I would suggest picking up another one rather than trying to salvage the badly damaged one you already have. (Hypothetically speaking that your head is too warped or that your cylinders have too much scoring.)

Switching the MK3 to a 2JZ-GTE is not a huge deal other than a couple of really pesky details. Like a bell housing, oil pan, ECU and a couple of other frequently forgotten annoyances. A nice little scavenger hunt.....

i may end up buying an engine from canada either way, and i am not purist i just want the power i want and room to expand when i want reliably

i thought the same thing an engine with 238k miles on it has to have a bit of ware on the inside and i had to drive the car with a BHG and pistons scraping to keep my job at one point i had to move back home and alot of bad things happened long story.

im fine with all the details i like putting effort into my car it makes me feel apart of it, and i have to replace the intercooler, oil cooler and all that anyway so technicaly i would spend just about hte same either way

 

[honeydew]

The break in is pretty much correct. I like the part about changing the oil with non-synthetic initially during the break in. It aides in seating the rings properly. Since all the gaskets are new, non-synthetic oil won't make a difference for the first 5000. I wouldn't say "NO Boost", BUT make sure the engine is warm before boosting and take it easy for the first 1000. No boosting top end, high RPM.

"Take it easy" meaning no 4th and 5th gear boosted pulls. The engine would be under tremendous load and heat without properly seated rings and variable oil pressure.

Check oil levels everyday, watch oil pressure. Your unseated rings WILL eat oil for a bit. Top the oil up. Change the oil after the first 1000 or earlier. Change to synthetic after the 2nd oil change if you want. Checking coolant levels will let you know if you've installed all your gaskets properly. Am I forgetting anything?

 

[honeydew]

It's still just an Inline 6 cylinder internal combustion engine. For a mechanic, these are about as simple as they get. The Jeep is an I-6, isn't it? It's not like it's some push-rod GM bullcrap.

Having said that, I would be so careful to whom you bring this engine. There isn't much room for error when milling these blocks or heads. Once it's done, you don't get another try. The 7M needs a perfect surface for the MHG to be effective. If you don't have complete confidence in the shop, look around.

Try to find some oldschool drag racer shop with like an old Nova on the hoist. Milling doesn't cost much and these guys really know their stuff in the racing world. Some General Repair mechanics just don't get it and never will.

 

[bradenman1]

The break in is pretty much correct. I like the part about changing the oil with non-synthetic initially during the break in. It aides in seating the rings properly. Since all the gaskets are new, non-synthetic oil won't make a difference for the first 5000. I wouldn't say "NO Boost", BUT make sure the engine is warm before boosting and take it easy for the first 1000. No boosting top end, high RPM.

"Take it easy" meaning no 4th and 5th gear boosted pulls. The engine would be under tremendous load and heat without properly seated rings and variable oil pressure.

Check oil levels everyday, watch oil pressure. Your unseated rings WILL eat oil for a bit. Top the oil up. Change the oil after the first 1000 or earlier. Change to synthetic after the 2nd oil change if you want. Checking coolant levels will let you know if you've installed all your gaskets properly. Am I forgetting anything?

i have grown to hate coolant lol i also have to replace the radiator and all hoses during the rebuild its pretty toasted at this point

i still cant get over the fact that i spanked a mustang gt with a blown head gasket and a misfiring cylinder and my car sounding like chubacca when i push the gas haha the guy was liek WTF?? did that just happen???

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------

It's still just an Inline 6 cylinder internal combustion engine. For a mechanic, these are about as simple as they get. The Jeep is an I-6, isn't it? It's not like it's some push-rod GM bullcrap.

Having said that, I would be so careful to whom you bring this engine. There isn't much room for error when milling these blocks or heads. Once it's done, you don't get another try. The 7M needs a perfect surface for the MHG to be effective. If you don't have complete confidence in the shop, look around.

Try to find some oldschool drag racer shop with like an old Nova on the hoist. Milling doesn't cost much and these guys really know their stuff in the racing world. Some General Repair mechanics just don't get it and never will.

i have read about hte tight tolerances the 7m has thats why im so worried about having it rebuilt i dont want to spend thousands then have an engine that lasts 30k miles and craps on me

 

[Flateric]

I strongly dislike the design of the I6 jeep motor I worked on, don't know how tough etc they are, just seemed like it threw away some of the best basic benefits of being in I6 arrangement. For example and my biggest facepalm of all was that they put the intake and the exhaust port on the same side of the motor right tight together too. Leaving the other side of the motor completely un-used. So no in one side out the other for improved flow, not heating the intake temps and easy of turbo installation.

Oh, and it was a jeep, I have never had luck with them being reliable.

 

[bradenman1]

I strongly dislike the design of the I6 jeep motor I worked on, don't know how tough etc they are, just seemed like it threw away some of the best basic benefits of being in I6 arrangement. For example and my biggest facepalm of all was that they put the intake and the exhaust port on the same side of the motor right tight together too. Leaving the other side of the motor completely un-used. So no in one side out the other for improved flow, not heating the intake temps and easy of turbo installation.

Oh, and it was a jeep, I have never had luck with them being reliable.

my buddy has an I4 in his it has been through hell and back driven under water and is drivin like a race car (its way too slow) my friend wants to take my old supra intercooler and my old turbo and make a manifold to run it on. the I6 jeep motor is suposed to be the most reliable and bulletproof jeep motor ever made

 

[bradenman1]

so i have decided rebuilding my 7m is going to be my best option because im starting collage soon

does anyone have any suggested links to rebuild techniques and what not, i have done a bit of research on this but you can never research enough

i got my jack, jackstands, engine leveler, and engine stand the other day just need to finish cleaning out the garage and get an engine lift.

Edit: any more suggestions for a reliable 400hp rebuild? so far im going with probe forged pistons and upgraded oil pump and arp head/rod hardware. also i have to do a 7/16 helicoil on the exhaust studs

once i get her torn down i ll take pics so everyone can see what happened inside my baby ;(

 

[honeydew]

ok so i have a 7mgte with a blown head gasket (shocker ) and valves that have broken loose and are now slapping against the pistons and head, i planned to rebuild the car almost completely with engine rebuild, MHG, intercooler and BOV, oil cooler, and alot more. my problem is i priced a complete rebuild at Driftmotion with upgraded oil pump/oil pan, forged pistons, all machine work, new stock valves (if the head is usable), full arp hardware, 7/8 exhaust stud upgrade, braided internal oil line, and probably more that i cant remember. this was all for 400 whp reliably for everyday use and room to grow if i wanted to. If im going to redo everything anyway would it be more benificial and cheaper for me to swap in a 2jz and build from there??? idk what to do im stuck at this point both seem like good options but idk which way to go.

also i have heard very good things about the builds driftmotion does and all their machine work is well done from what iv read, does anyone have any imput on this or have had an engine rebuilt with them id like to know how your experience was with them before i decide to send my 7mgte off to them or try to sorce a 2j depending on which way i go.

thank you for reading all help is greatly appreciated )

A later post suggests you are going with a 7M, I just quoted this so I could reflect what you want.

It's good because the first step you'll be taking is milling the block. You can take your new pistons with you and have them bore specifically for each piston spec. This is one step that will determine if you can continue with the block you have.

Since your valves got f'ed, chances are the valve seats got damaged. The valves will need to be cleaned up or replaced and you'll have to refinish the valve seats. There could be gouges in the seats and I don't know how possible or cost effective it would be to have gouges repaired. Unless I had refinished valve seats a few times before, I would send it out to be done. This is a step that will determine if the head can be salvaged. Rather than attempting it yourself, when/if you send it out, a professional can tell you if it's a lost cause or not before doing the work and save you a lot of energy.

Valve stems can be replaced. If they are mangled in the port they can be hammered out. Special tool is called/part number *...anyone....* (?) for replacing stems. If the stems are shifted and hammered into the aluminum in the head..... that would mean a new head as well.

Could have the crank balanced/crack tested, depending on how long the car was abused with a BHG. Those rods are pretty strong stock but I would think it's much more likely to bend a rod rather than warp the crank. IMHO. I have seen people insistent upon crack testing between rebuilds, I'm not a machinist/metallurgist so I can't say for sure either way, but it's something to look into.

I don't know anyone who says bad stuff about driftmotion. I also have heard great things about Titan motorsports but... cost.

I know I said stock pistons were adequate but you mention the valves bouncing around in there and also wanting room to grow. Suddenly pistons are probably a good idea. Rods too, since you are there anyway and a good set of rods are only going to run you $500+.

The stock ct might get you to about 300 and a 57trim could get you to 400 but that is maxxing it out.
If you got the cash upgrading to a t4 mani and like a 61mm turbo with a smaller a/r exhaust housing would prolly be a better idea and with the smaller housing you would get quicker spool.
You will also need a walbro or mk4 pump(better but more expensive), 550's, afpr, lex afm, and a wideband for the fuel and basic tuning.
After that its safc, maft pro or standalone with standalone the best.

Agreed. The 57Trim on the CT really does kick ass, 350-380hp will be smoking fast, 400hp definitely is pushing it, but you can upgrade your turbo later. Couple of Walbros are necessary, upgraded fuel lines if you planned on running race gas, later. 550's are ok for your target now but could be upgraded again with more power. You can go bigger and tune. I like 680's, junk yard for Bosch, $20-ish+ each. Lexus AFM for sure, K&N. The Zeitronics Wideband is the best I know of and is no longer pricey, $200 or less. With the Wideband, a SAFC is good. Standalone is awesome but $1800+ is a lot of money for a 350-400hp build. Buy it later when you get the itch for more power.

dropping 5000 into the car but it also needs new suspension and brakes to ride smooth this car is my baby and ill have it for life i could never let it go its too sexy

I'll second that! $5000 should just about do it for a really strong foundation of a well built engine with a few goodies. You'll have a reliable engine and be able to add more power later.

I love my brakes and they actually have a lot more longevity than i thought they would. I've had them 2 summers now. Rotors are PowerSlots with EBC green stuff pads. You can go more aggressive with your pads if you plan on autocross.

Watch how stiff your coilovers are, or you'll be replacing balljoints (if you are lucky) every 2000K. Go with something middle of the road, stiffness wise.

Someone else mentioned a clutch.

http://www.kaizentuning.com/
http://store.driftmotion.com/static/index.php (when you said "dm" I's assuming this is who you meant.)
Or go to the bottom columns of the front forum page for actual threads.


Edited to say that pics will be so cool, I know you don't have to but I would love to see a detailed account of your tear down and would be *Much* appreciated.

Edited again to regard what a blabbermouth I am, I'm sorry for the novel....it won't happen again. I just can't sleep

 

[honeydew]

does anyone have any suggested links to rebuild techniques and what not, i have done a bit of research on this but you can never research enough

I would think the best information is right here on this and other Supra Forums in different cities. The info on forums can be critiqued, corrected and agreed with by others who have gone through the same issues. There are sites on the web dedicated to rebuilding the 7M with HP in mind but they may be biased (ie. to sell product, advertising, just think they know everything...) and without input from unbiased posters. Good for ideas but definitely to be taken as a starting point, researching after.

The only thing I would trust on blogs or websites, are absolutes. Like various Turbo performance maps, specs. on various products, etc. DIY are half based on the builders opinions of what is best on the market and how a set-up should be assembled.

www.torontosupraclub.ca
www.toyota-supra.info
www.supraforums.com
www.mkiiitech.com
http://suprasonic.org/lexusriemer/lexusnotes.html

I don't vouch for any information you get on these sites, I have not read everything offered and can't agree or disagree with what info is available. I just threw up a couple to see if they are helpful to you.