My Motor Carnage pics!!!

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
10
36
Here's a clear picture of a piston/rod from a MKIV that has been given the same treatment.

This what he's seeing that you can't clearly see in the crappy cellphone pics.

Melted 2JZ-GTE Piston:
will.meltdown.1.jpg


And yes, that's molten piston sprayed all over that rod:
will.meltdown.2.jpg


The only thing that will cause damage like this is running lean. VERY lean.

Boosted516, unless you really like wasting money, there's nothing short of a FULL rebuild that is going to get this motor back in shape. I would pull the motor, completely disassemble it, have to block hot tanked and start over. All of that molten metal is now in every oil passage in that motor.
 

frontierguy25

New Member
Mar 26, 2007
968
0
0
TX
Wow, guys lots of replies. I had to work with a friend yesterday and couldn't reply back. IJ, we don't have a problem with each other! Here is some background on what happened.

My motor got rod knock and I decided to get this block with new pistons and rings but all of my cylinders had good compression and no signs of lean out or detonation. It has NPR pistons and rings, I made a thread about it here recently to see if they were any good. Well anyways I decided to install this new block so I could get to TX2K9, because I worked for 4 months to get the drag racing done for the MK3's. And it was the best MK3 drag racing that I have ever seen and I didn't want to miss it.

I got the motor in and every thing was fine for a while, no leaks or anything, the car ran fine. About 50 miles into it, the car started to miss, kinda like a small vac/boost leak some where (I actually talked to Grim Reaper about it). My vac at idle went from 20-21 to 15-16. I searched all around for vac leaks and couldn't find one! Well the next day I was driving around the car and it was still the same but only at idle. I had a friend come over and look at it and we couldn't find the leak and we looked at the afpr went up to 35psi and I turned it down to 30psi and it seemed to help with the vac and it went to 17. So we decided to head to Houston. About 200 miles away from DFW we pulled over to get some drinks and take a leak. Yotarob was beind me in his car, when we stopped he said that he had little drops of oil on his windsheild and we looked under the hood and saw that the turbo line was leaking just a little bit on the motor mount. The car was missing again at idle when we left. So We were so close to the track at TX2K9 that I decided to get there and check it out.

When we got to the track, my oil was still full and my oil pressure was good! We Looked all around and still couldn't find a leak. The next day the drag racing classes take place. The car only acted funny at idle so I decided to make a pass. First pass was a 12.8 @110 and it was missing at the top end and didn't feel as strong. I talked with a couple people and told them the problems that I was having on the way down to Houston and the pass I just made and decided to change the plugs because they might have been fouled out because of running a little rich. When I changed the plugs they were all wore out, showed them to a couple that were over there while I was changing them and they said the same. But the #6 plug had a little oil on it and we saw a little oil in the Galley so I summed it up as it got a little oil down there. I fired the car up and it was idling at 17 again and it felt a lot better but still not quite as good. I went and made another pass and was missing all the way down the track and ran 13.0 @110. So I brought the car back and we noticed that there was a vac leak at the Power steering line that goes to the intake manifold. I just capped it off for the time being and the car wen up to 17 again at idle and seemed to be running much better but still not quite as good. I made my last pass and ran a 12.8 @ 112.5 and at the end when I let off there was a big cloud of smoke. I parked her and we we took out all the plugs and noticed that #6 was completely coated in oil. we took a straw and noticed that there was about 4mm of oil on top of the piston. We took all my old plugs and tried to change them out and see if we could burn off the oil. But no luck. I didn't want to leave my car in Houston so my friend Trent(super mod on SF) his house was about 100 miles away. Talked with Suprahero and what he went through last year on his way home and then I decided to drive it. I didn't want to leave my car at the track with my wheels and tires and all my tools in the back. We got some oil and had to stop to put it in. About half way there my oil pressure started going down fast about to 15 psi so we pulled over and put 6 more quarts of oil. We were half way there and it's about midnight and I decided to keep going. YotaRob had to stay about 1/4 mile back because of all the oil burning. We had to stop 2 more times to put oil in it. The car stayed cool, no knocking and oil pressure was good until I needed to put more in and we got there. The next day I had to go back to Austin to pick the car up.

I had to drive it into my garage and noticed I still had oil, and my pressure was good, let it idle for a min or so and no knocking.

Me and Rob summed it up as some thing didn't seal right or the piston was bad or something. And on the way to Austin the #6 was running lean because the plug was coated in oil and couldn't spark the fuel going in and made it look like it does in my crappy pics and blew the hole in the bottom of the piston. I think that if I Just left the car at the track and didn't attempt to drive it to Austin the piston wouldn't look like that.

The motor had 500 miles on it when it blew at the track.

I did have my injectors cleaned about 6 months ago as well, and they were all ok.

Sorry for the long post, but didn't want to leave anything out!
 

suprahero

naughty by nature
Staff member
Aug 26, 2005
14,971
0
36
54
Roll Tide
My damage wasn't caused by an injector Ryan. It was caused by a poor tune with way too much timing. I don't know what your plans are with this, but I wish you the best and really appreciate all the work you did for the MKIII class at Texas. Hopefully next year will be even bigger and better.
 

grimreaper

New Member
Jul 2, 2008
2,180
0
0
Dallas
what were the settings on the safr at? Maybe the JE's took the abuse from the timing increase if it was large, and the nprs couldnt cut it.

I didnt think fuel would do that with out a spark (or glow plug affect)? I was under the understanding that to melt a hole like that there had to be SOME trickle of fuel with spark to make it a "plasma cutter".

Any word from JIS? shitty shitty shitty man, Let me know if you need some help, im off all weekend :D
 

frontierguy25

New Member
Mar 26, 2007
968
0
0
TX
Thanks Suprahero, but what is weird is that my injector works fine, just heard from Lonestar fuel injection and they said the injector flows at 674cc, supposed to be at 680.

Grim, thanks for the offer but I have the motor out and ready to take to them on Monday. We might be having a little get together tonight though, give me a call if you want to come over.

I think that it looks like this because there was hardly any spark making the car run lean. If I would've just towed it, it would've not looked like this I think. Should've listened to YotaRob!! After all he is wise!!
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
10
36
A poor spark condition would not cause the issue you've shown. Poor spark creates an incomplete burn.

I'd start inspecting wiring. The injector itself could be in 100% perfect condition, but if there is a short in the wiring harness, the injector may fire intermittently and cause a lean condition.
 

frontierguy25

New Member
Mar 26, 2007
968
0
0
TX
Supra Central, What is weird is that when I my car had a BHG we thought that it was not firing so we tested it and it was fine. I also have a new wiring harness and checked it over and all seems good. Could it have run lean because of the oil getting by the ring and basically watering or saturating the fuel down so much and the spark is to powerful for the saturated fuel? Because right after it blew we had checked and there was a lot of oil on the cylinder and the plug, so much we measured with a long straw and it covered 4mm of it at the bottom.

Again thanks for the help guys.
 

YotaRob

U.S.Navy
Jun 18, 2008
177
0
0
Great Lakes
I realy need to get on here at home so I can see the pics....damn work computers blocking the goods. If you have a firing issue to the injector it would also kill another injector for the most part unless its in that short bit if wiring up to the splice. With a good flow test showing plenty of fuel, one thing in the back of my mind has been bothering me. Fallowing the "advice" at the track by a sponsor to lower the regulator a bit. Like I said on the phone, too low of fuel pressure can inadequitly atomize fuel out of the injectors.
Once its back together, lets get Ross to have a look at her for proper tuning.
 

frontierguy25

New Member
Mar 26, 2007
968
0
0
TX
When I lowered the pressure it was only to 30psi from the 32 it was at with the vac line on, so there should have been plenty of fuel with the 680's. I would think because it fires in batches the #1 Cylinder would have been messed up too, because they are on the same circuit IIRC. But all the other cylinders are fine. My car is possessed or something! It's screaming 2J! Harness isn't spliced either.

Yeah I'll take it over to Ross when we get it back together and see we can tune this thing better.
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
10
36
frontierguy25;1282677 said:
Supra Central, What is weird is that when I my car had a BHG we thought that it was not firing so we tested it and it was fine. I also have a new wiring harness and checked it over and all seems good. Could it have run lean because of the oil getting by the ring and basically watering or saturating the fuel down so much and the spark is to powerful for the saturated fuel? Because right after it blew we had checked and there was a lot of oil on the cylinder and the plug, so much we measured with a long straw and it covered 4mm of it at the bottom.

Again thanks for the help guys.

Motor oil contamination in the combustion chamber will cause detonation, but not a lean burn condition. Considering the level of damage in your photos, I'm not at all surprised oil control went to shit after the damage was done. However I strongly doubt that this condition existed before the damage occurred.

If there is no mechanical or wiring problem, it's something in your tune. But make damned sure of that or you'll be going through this all over again.

One thing to remember, unless you have the luxury of EGT and o2 sensors in each exhaust runner, you're tuning the "average" of the 6 cylinders. This means if you're pushing it on the average, odds are there's a cylinder that is over the line.

This is why any GOOD tuner leaves some wiggle room and doesn't tune to the ragged edge.
 

chefma70

New Member
Mar 19, 2008
404
0
0
Florida
IJ.;1282175 said:
I had a run in with this guy awhile back over something I posted as a joke so figured I'd try and keep it as professional as possible, on SF I tend not to care as much ;)

:icon_razz :sarcasm:
 

frontierguy25

New Member
Mar 26, 2007
968
0
0
TX
Supracentral;1282710 said:
Motor oil contamination in the combustion chamber will cause detonation, but not a lean burn condition. Considering the level of damage in your photos, I'm not at all surprised oil control went to shit after the damage was done. However I strongly doubt that this condition existed before the damage occurred.

If there is no mechanical or wiring problem, it's something in your tune. But make damned sure of that or you'll be going through this all over again.

This is why any GOOD tuner leaves some wiggle room and doesn't tune to the ragged edge.

I agree with you, I don't think any of this damage happened until the track and the drive back to Austin. I think that it all started because of #6 loosing compression, the car down low almost seemed as if it has a BHG at low rpms. I guess it's my fault for racing it like that and making it worse. The tune is the same as it has always been for the last Year or so. Nothing changed, just swapped out bottom end and flywheel. All my dyno graphs show to be around 14 at low rpms and between 10.5-11.6 under boost. My car has always run a little bit rich because I've been afraid of something like this.

With my other block I ran the piss out of it, but it had JE pistons. I put 40k miles on it with over 50 drag passes and 400rwhp always tuned for 93 pump gas. The only reason why I swapped that one out is because of the rod knock and I wanted to get to TX2K9. I had the same tune as before, didn't touch anything.

I wish I had a better camera to take better pics.
 

frontierguy25

New Member
Mar 26, 2007
968
0
0
TX
Doward;1282743 said:
That's exactly how the factory does it, too.

Yup but not too far from factory. When I dynoed last I had a very good tuner there with me to help with the adjustments of my SAFR, and I'm still a little rich just for a little room to play with.

Never got a PM back from you!