Minor Issues, first start 7mgte. TPS error 41

[Nghty89]

Well, she runs! :love:

Soundslikesemi87 came over and did my walbro install (I'm was being lazy. Thanks man!), and I got the tranny/DS bolted up. We had to adjust the cps, but she cranked right over. Now timing is set perfectly and she sounds healthy. Minus the blown turbo of course. lol I do love the 3" Megamouth DP from Zanoku, wonderful sound! Currently open until I source a catback. :naughty:

So is it normal for brand new rear mains to leak at first? It could be something else, but I wont know until I replace the turbo tomorrow.

And we CANNOT set the tps so save our lives. I keep getting code 41, and the throttle wont go past 2K rpms. If you blip it, it just chokes. I have tried setting it by the recommendations here:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97689&highlight=throttle+calibrate

But to no avail. Any ideas anyone? No pics or video until tomorrow lol






****EDIT**** For those looking for a quick answer, the fix to my problems AFTER diagnosing each possible wire issue PER TSRM, was a new TPS from autozone for $70, a new AFM, and aftermarket gauges in place of stock oil pressure, water temp, and boost.

 

[S.A. supra]

Well, she runs! :love:

Soundslikesemi87 came over and did my walbro install (I'm was being lazy. Thanks man!), and I got the tranny/DS bolted up. We had to adjust the cps, but she cranked right over. Now timing is set perfectly and she sounds healthy. Minus the blown turbo of course. lol I do love the 3" Megamouth DP from Zanoku, wonderful sound! Currently open until I source a catback. :naughty:

So is it normal for brand new rear mains to leak at first? It could be something else, but I wont know until I replace the turbo tomorrow.

And we CANNOT set the tps so save our lives. I keep getting code 41, and the throttle wont go past 2K rpms. If you blip it, it just chokes. I have tried setting it by the recommendations here:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97689&highlight=throttle+calibrate

But to no avail. Any ideas anyone? No pics or video until tomorrow lol

I had that problem Before. I didn't put the tps on correctly.

 

[hvyman]

you prolly needs new tps or to adjust it(you cant just put it on and expect it to be fine) and no its is not normal for a main seal & any seal to leak at first start up unless improperly installed or not torqued.

 

[jdub]

Ummm...you guys might want to take a look at what a code 41 means.
(hint: you will never be able to set the TPS with a code 41)

 

[Nghty89]

Then i must have been reading it wrong. Let me re-read it.

As for the seal, I installed it correctly, so it may be from something else. The turbo was pissing oil everywhere. Apparently it wasn't in as good of shape as the previous owner made it out to be for $75. We shall see if it doesn't rain.


Edit: Re-read the TSRM. I found that it's caused by either the TPS, TPS circuit, or ECU due to an opening or short circuit in the tps signal (VTA)

This diagram will help troubleshoot - http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=55

I'm going to see what I can do. So far I have two tps sensors I have switched back and forth. I also have another ECU to try.

Thanks Jdub! I work my best when I have people to toss ideas to and feedback to work with.

 

[jetjock]

Assuming the ECU is good (overwhelmingly likely) code 41 can only be set by three conditions:

1) VTA below 100 mv at any TPS position (short in VTA)

2) VTA above 4.8 volts at any TPS position (open in VTA)

3) VTA above 1.5 volts with IDL at 0 volts (IDL switch closed or IDL circuit shorted).

Number 3 is easily checked using code 51 in diag mode. Based on your saying the engine "chokes" (rpm cut function) this is likely your problem.

Btw in the future I suggest following the manual. While it's true there are better ways to set the TPS than the TSRM that write up isn't one of them...

 

[Nghty89]

Interesting. I thought that WAS the tsrm way to do it. I will read further into that. No wonder I couldn't make it work right no matter what I did...

So you think it sounds like #3 is most likely the culprit? How exactly would I check each of those? Or are the steps in the tsrm on the diagram I linked too?

 

[whitemike]

Number 3 is easily checked using code 51 in diag mode. Based on your saying the engine "chokes" (rpm cut function) this is likely your problem.

So you think it sounds like #3 is most likely the culprit? How exactly would I check each of those? Or are the steps in the tsrm on the diagram I linked too?

HINT:
Code 51 can be caused by IDL contacts off...i.e. the TPS is not adjusted correctly or the TB plate is open (accelerator pedal depressed)

 

[hvyman]

code 41
Throttle Position Sensor Signal


Diagnosis

* Open or short circuit in throttle position sensor signal.

Trouble Area

* Throttle position sensor circuit
* Throttle position sensor
* ECU

correct me if im wrong but it has something to do with the tps or soemthing related to it?

 

[whitemike]

code 41
Throttle Position Sensor Signal


Diagnosis

* Open or short circuit in throttle position sensor signal.

Trouble Area

* Throttle position sensor circuit
* Throttle position sensor
* ECU

correct me if im wrong but it has something to do with the tps or soemthing related to it?

Yes.

 

[jetjock]

...we CANNOT set the tps so save our lives.

You didn't say exactly what that means. What problem did you have? Where in the procedure did you see/measure something wrong? You also weren't very clear on what the engine does.

Bring the rpm up to 3000 and hold it there. Does the engine cut in and out? If so the IDL contact is remaining closed. That symptom, combined with 41 being set, is the tip off to cause # 3. Or as whitemike said you can always go into diag made and see if 51 comes up when the pedal is pressed. If it doesn't the IDL contact isn't opening.

If the engine doesn't hit rpm cut the problem is either cause 1 or 2. Do you have TEMS? Turn on the key (don't start the engine) and stab the gas pedal. Does TEMS respond? If so VTA is reaching the ECU and being passed on to the TEMS controller. If you don't have TEMS you'll need to break out your meter and do some testing.

Some more info on the TPS. It's dumbed down quite a bit but better than nothing:

http://www.mkiiitech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=882

 

[Nghty89]

You didn't say exactly what that means. What problem did you have? Where in the procedure did you see/measure something wrong? You also weren't very clear on what the engine does.

I was unable to get the TPS to respond according to the post I was following (the first one linked to that you said wasn't the greatest). We could not get the ohms to come out the same way. The engine idles beautifully, but only goes to 2K rpm and then drops down and then does it again to 2K rpm, and so forth. If you blip the throttle, she does not respond and stumbles a little.


Bring the rpm up to 3000 and hold it there. Does the engine cut in and out? If so the IDL contact is remaining closed. That symptom, combined with 41 being set, is the tip off to cause # 3. Or as whitemike said you can always go into diag made and see if 51 comes up when the pedal is pressed. If it doesn't the IDL contact isn't opening.

If you hold the throttle she will only go to 2K rpm and then cut in and out and staying at roughly that rpm. I will look for code 51

If the engine doesn't hit rpm cut the problem is either cause 1 or 2. Do you have TEMS? Turn on the key (don't start the engine) and stab the gas pedal. Does TEMS respond? If so VTA is reaching the ECU and being passed on to the TEMS controller. If you don't have TEMS you'll need to break out your meter and do some testing.

No TEMS on my baby.

Some more info on the TPS. It's dumbed down quite a bit but better than nothing:

http://www.mkiiitech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=882

Details added. Currently reading that link. I am about to go out and do my testing. It's sunny and 60! YAY!

 

[jetjock]

Those tests aren't 100% conclusive as far as the TPS goes but they do verify the wiring between it and the ECU. That leaves the TPS itself (either bad or out of adjustment) as the cause.

Sounds like the IDL contact alright. The engine idles well because the IDL contact is telling the ECU the throttle is closed. That turns on the idle speed control system among other things. All well and good. The problem is when the throttle is opened the ECU sees increasing airflow, rpm, and VTA but the bad (or maladjusted) IDL contact still tells it the throttle is closed. That's an illogical situation so the ECU is programmed to halt fuel injection. In addition to cutting injection, when VTA reaches 1.5 volts with IDL still closed, the ECU sets code 41.

Check for 51 in diag mode (the engine doesn't need to be running) with the throttle anywhere but fully closed. Based on what you wrote it's unlikely to be there.

edit: Forgot to mention it but simply unplugging the TPS should stop the cutting out...

 

[Nghty89]

Those tests aren't 100% conclusive as far as the TPS goes but they do verify the wiring between it and the ECU. That leaves the TPS itself (either bad or out of adjustment) as the cause.

Sounds like the IDL contact alright. The engine idles well because the IDL contact is telling the ECU the throttle is closed. That turns on the idle speed control system among other things. All well and good. The problem is when the throttle is opened the ECU sees increasing airflow, rpm, and VTA but the bad (or maladjusted) IDL contact still tells it the throttle is closed. That's an illogical situation so the ECU is programmed to halt fuel injection. In addition to cutting injection, when VTA reaches 1.5 volts with IDL still closed, the ECU sets code 41.

Check for 51 in diag mode (the engine doesn't need to be running) with the throttle anywhere but fully closed. Based on what you wrote it's unlikely to be there.

edit: Forgot to mention it but simply unplugging the TPS should stop the cutting out...

Well, I unplugged the TPS because you mentioned in the article that it could run without it. And she drives beautifully! Minus the smoke from the turbo lol but that will be rectified in a few hours with the new turbo. She still stumbles when I give it more than a little throttle, but the cut-out is gone and I can take her through the gears pretty well.

I just went outside and put it into Diag mode. While holding the pedal, I get 31, 41, and 51. I have removed the efi fuse to reset it and I will try it again in a few minutes without the pedal being pressed.

 

[Nghty89]

Ok, now without the pedal being touched I am getting 31 and 51. I started her up, gave it a little throttle and it is still 31 and 51.

I am now going to be checking voltages according to this:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=52

and all the way up to page 56.

 

[jetjock]

It should behave just as I said. With the TPS unplugged idle will be funky and some slight hesitation may be present during acceleration but otherwise you could drive around all day long like that.

The 41 and 51 are expected, especially if the TPS is unplugged. You need to do the next 51 check with it plugged in though. The 31 is probably an old code. I say that because the engine wouldn't run as well as it does if that code was really legit. Hopefully it won't come back after reset....

edit: The 31 is still there? That's bad news. You'll need to resolve that before messing with the TPS. It's much more serious. I hadn't planned on dealing with anything but a 41. Try cycling the AFM connector and see if the 31 clears. Maybe you'll get lucky...

 

[jetjock]

All you really need is to check IDL to E2 and VTA to E2. IDL to E2 should be around 5 volts with the throttle open and around 0 volts when it's closed. VTA should be between 100-300 mv throttle closed and around 3.5 volts throttle wide open. VTA must not be less than 100 mv or more than 4.8 volts at any throttle position. For code 31 measure the frequency of Ks referenced to E2 or chassis ground at idle and 2500 rpm. If your meter can't do that you're sort of stuck...

 

[Nghty89]

Oh I think my meter can do it, I just have no idea what is what... :aigo:

I'm currently working on it though, I should have something shortly.

 

[whitemike]

Perhaps you should bring the car to somebody. What city are you in?

 

[jetjock]

There's a boat load of people here that should bring their cars to somebody but they don't. Just look at the daily postings of pure dumb. Not inexperienced, not unfamiliar with cars, but a total lack of common sense or out right stupidity. I ignore most of them but this guy seems helpable. Course, I could be wrong. It sure wouldn't be the first time...