tissimo;1349652 said:
Apparently you didn't read the OP's links completely, as that issue was addressed, and is not a problem with good atomization.
Methanol/water injection pre-turbo
- Thread starter tekdeus
- Start date
Apparently you didn't read the OP's links completely, as that issue was addressed, and is not a problem with good atomization.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlObdXF8VE&feature=related
those blades can take it.
also when you shut the throttle rapidly there could be a issue with pooling if you didnt cut the fluid off quickly enough
those blades can take it.
also when you shut the throttle rapidly there could be a issue with pooling if you didnt cut the fluid off quickly enough
That explosion was due to bouncing off the limiter during a burnout and what normally would be a small backfire turning into a pipebomb....
Big overlap cams = lighting the mixture off in the exhaust header finding a path back to the intake then into the 6.5 litres of fuel air compressed to 24psi and the resulting BOOM.
As for the weld failing it blew the backfire valve off the intake bent some valves and blew the HG in 3 cylinders if it hadn't failed where it did the damge would have been much worse ending at the pan.
I post this pic to demonstrate the danger of a compressed fuel air mixture outside of the engine, by spraying into the compressor inlet you're building a20+ litre pipe bomb in the front of the car, all it takes is a backfire.
I know from experience that spraying into the turbo isn't an issue my setup didn't atomise at all and was spraying a stream, modern pumps and nozzles do a brilliant job making a fine mist.
Big overlap cams = lighting the mixture off in the exhaust header finding a path back to the intake then into the 6.5 litres of fuel air compressed to 24psi and the resulting BOOM.
As for the weld failing it blew the backfire valve off the intake bent some valves and blew the HG in 3 cylinders if it hadn't failed where it did the damge would have been much worse ending at the pan.
I post this pic to demonstrate the danger of a compressed fuel air mixture outside of the engine, by spraying into the compressor inlet you're building a20+ litre pipe bomb in the front of the car, all it takes is a backfire.
I know from experience that spraying into the turbo isn't an issue my setup didn't atomise at all and was spraying a stream, modern pumps and nozzles do a brilliant job making a fine mist.
supraguru05;1349777 said:
You realize that jet engines are designed to take it? I'm not sure the engineers for turbos designed for it.
tissimo;1349879 said:
The equipment available today is good enough to atomize the injected fluids to a small enough mist, to negate any harmful effects from liquids hitting the compressor blades, and it might only be an issue, if you were in an endurance race, and putting fluid through it constantly.
I would not bother putting water/meth in pre turbo my self. For you Brad you are already using a massive amount of water/meth per tank of gas and that will just get worse or you will be carrying around 50lbs of water/meth in the back.
I would look at getting the larger nozzle we were talking about last week and see how that helps. You also need to remember that you are still running on stock management and timing so there is going to be a limit somewhere.
I would look at getting the larger nozzle we were talking about last week and see how that helps. You also need to remember that you are still running on stock management and timing so there is going to be a limit somewhere.
IJ.;1349812 said:
I knew there had to be an ignition source somewhere for that. I'm still wondering about the condensation issue, if indeed, an intercooler can leech the water out of the mix. If it does, the mix could become flammable enough to cause issues. I'm still looking for a definitive answer for that.
to get away from the pipe bomb issue of having a flammable intake charge, maybe straight water or a very small amount of meth mixture like 20% would work better? or would it not be worth it using such a small amount of meth?
Or maybe i missed the point of mixing 48/52 is that it is not flamable. Im assuming that IJ's 48/52 mixture is water and methanol? or would that be water and alcohol? or is that the same......
Or maybe i missed the point of mixing 48/52 is that it is not flamable. Im assuming that IJ's 48/52 mixture is water and methanol? or would that be water and alcohol? or is that the same......
tissimo;1349879 said:
it was sarcasm. i still think port or manifold injection is better especially when it comes to the throttle body being closed and rapid changes in the airflow whichcould cause pooling and other things. remember diesels don't have throttle bodies
nosechunks;1350167 said:
Meth or alcohol both evaporate faster than water, which would increase cooling efficiency. A closer to 50/50 mix is more desirable, as cooling the intake charge is the goal of all this.
rayall01;1350215 said:
The main benefit of meth injection is more of the gained octane rather then the cooler air entering the engine.
tissimo;1350224 said:
Sounds plausible, but the OP was about cooling the intake charge, so I'm trying to stick to that line of thought.
rayall01;1350215 said:
The intake is a sealed system...sure the alch evaps into a gas which cools the system but the alch is still there just in gas form....therefor if it's flamable in liquid form then it's generally even more volitile in a gas form....= pipebomb possibility still can happen....the water mix is more for cooling (yes the alch helps a bunch) and it also dilutes it to prevent backfire explosions like the one ij posted! Pure meth would be fucking sex in an intake but it's not wise...running injectors in each runner would be fantastic also as it would be much safer and wouldn't let fumes accumulate....but then you loose the added bonus of cooling the intake charge pre intake!
So...moral of the story is 50/50 is not smart as it will burn easily!
gaboonviper85;1350547 said:
Dope! I didn't say it should be 50/50/ I said closer to 50/50 as opposed to 20 percent in the post I replied to.
rayall01;1350568 said:
You know, 90% of your posts you always have an excuse as to why you're wrong...you also seem to enjoy tossing # pulled from your ass....you give info that is contrary to what far more experienced people know as fact....
Saying shit like "mix closer to 50/50" is not helping...not even a little....if you notice IJ posted an exact mix that he has personally mixed and tested...but no not you....someone can take what you say to heart and your info mixed with their lack of research could result in an injury on a dyno or who knows the fuck what!
I'm sitting here machining $20,000 slabs of titanium and reading your bullshit....I'm waiting just waiting for you to open your mouth about machining motors or the likes....you seem to think you know it all but it's obvious you only know a little about some, the rest you just tarrot read the corn in your shit! It's obvious you like this forum just as much as the rest...now imagine every post was filled with your style bullshit...supramania would then become supraforumsII! When I have a problem with my car and I get an answer from a seasoned member here who has broke alot of shit and fixed alot of shit then god damn I believe them and so far that's not you! In the past I had an issue and IJ answered...I couldn't see if he was correct at the time but after I replaced my WHOLE drivetrain I inspected my old driveshaft and BLAM he nailed it! Untill you can give an answer like that then stfu please!
tekdeus;1349098 said:
This is how the Indy Car Turbo that I have is setup.
No intercooler needed, and it keeps the injectors from leaking out of their seals when pushed to high psi boost levels.
I really think it would work fine.. Draw-through carb. setups seemed to work perfect with fuel hitting the turbo blades. Like said the supercooling effect would help a lot too.
The only thing I would worry about is running an intercooler. With the guy speaking of having the intercooler frost over running like that I would worry about the water freezing in it and turning it into a big block of ice.
I also would worry about having the nozzles pre-BOV as I wouldnt want leftover meth/water blowing all over my engine bay when shifting or completely freezing the BOV open or shut. Also I'd worry if you have your wastegate source coming from the compressor housing with a setup like that.
The only thing I would worry about is running an intercooler. With the guy speaking of having the intercooler frost over running like that I would worry about the water freezing in it and turning it into a big block of ice.
I also would worry about having the nozzles pre-BOV as I wouldnt want leftover meth/water blowing all over my engine bay when shifting or completely freezing the BOV open or shut. Also I'd worry if you have your wastegate source coming from the compressor housing with a setup like that.