Leaking water between head and block, Seen this before?

[grimreaper]

UPDATE PAGE 4

Had bad would the block need to be warped to leak water between the head and block?
Fresh Toyota HG tqed to 75 ftlbs and it slowly leaks out. I can watch it bead up and trickle down the side on the exhaust on 1,2,5&6 and on the intake of 1. Head was decked. I didn't have a machine straight edge to check the block. Car was ran for MAYBE 2 minutes. If i fill it with water, it trickles out with the thing just sitting, NOT RUNNING.

head is off again (2.5 hrs total, a bit sore!) and I'll be hunting down a straight edge. Looks like a fresh bottom end is in order though..

The hg had oil all over it but I couldn't determine if it was from when i lifted the head to remove it (took two tries). Everything was cleaned perfectly before assembly. coolant passages dint have any major corrosion and all look like they should have sealed.

Noticed the head gasket had a thick 1-2mm lip around the water passages on the top (head to gasket surface) but the bottom of the gasket had a MUCH smaller lip. Normal?

Actually started buying 2j swap parts! hopefully it scared the 7m into working with me..:icon_razz

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Was the block machined at all?

 

[grimreaper]

no just basic prep work. Main reason i stuck with the oem composite. I was hoping to prolong pulling the block until i could do the full build or swap.

previous owner had it machined though (or at least lapped). Still has a mirror shine on it.

 

[GrimJack]

Block would have to be in pretty sad shape to leak on all those cylinders, especially without any pressure other than gravity. All the head bolts were still tight when you pulled it?

 

[grimreaper]

yea all the studs were tight. I did a re tq before pulling it for grins. Everything was at 75-76ftlbs.

noticed there was a gaseket shapped layer of oil film on the head, not what i expected. I didnt do much to clean the camshaft area. Just shop vacced it and towled all the oil off. maybe some missed oil found its way on to the surface?

Now i know what people with std's must go through. You know you have them, but where did you get them?!

 

[Heavy D]

did you bolt the head in order and how many sequence have you done. also did you get a chance to use a straight edge on the block?

 

[grimreaper]

started from the inside and worked out (followed the tsrm) and went 25,50,75. Trying to locate a straight edge locally as we speak.

 

[supraguy@aol]

I've always thought my composite HG's had an equal embossing of metal around jackets on both sides of the gasket. What brand of gasket was it?

 

[89supra7mgte]

You would think the block would have to be noticably warped to leak with gravity. How did the engine run before? if it did? If you got that much of a leak i am almost betting that the gasket is at fault. Defective or what not, given the engine ran before and was not overheated to an extreme.

 

[CajunKenny]

Glad to see you're at least investigating this before you go over to the 2j Darkside!

 

[Nick M]

Glad to see you're at least investigating this before you go over to the 2j Darkside!

He could always go with a low price 1JZ. I saw one on craigslist cheap that was overheating.

 

[grimreaper]

I've always thought my composite HG's had an equal embossing of metal around jackets on both sides of the gasket. What brand of gasket was it?

toyota. can anybody confirm this?

You would think the block would have to be noticably warped to leak with gravity. How did the engine run before? if it did? If you got that much of a leak i am almost betting that the gasket is at fault. Defective or what not, given the engine ran before and was not overheated to an extreme.

Ran great. never overheated, just bubbles in the res. when running. Started using a little coolant for 2-3 days before i tore it down. nothing extreme

Glad to see you're at least investigating this before you go over to the 2j Darkside!

I know, if i can get the 7m running, i'll post pone the swap..

He could always go with a low price 1JZ. I saw one on craigslist cheap that was overheating.

1j is an option. full swap is in the 2500-3000 range. About twice what a basic 7m rebuild would cost (assuming everything is re usable)

 

[CyFi6]

I can tell you for a fact that the bottom of the gasket has less copper sealing material showing than the top. Seems very odd that its leaking from the head gasket without even having pressure behind it. Are you sure it isnt leaking from the coolant hard pipe behind the manifold? I would be more concerned that the machine shop messed up the head decking seeing as it ran before on a MHG without this issue.

 

[tsupranami]

Toyota OEM HG. More metal showing on top of all passages.

Top



Bottom

 

[tsupranami]

What head bolts/studs are you using? Do they go all the way down in all block holes smoothly? To the same depth? Any chance contamination from inside the bolt holes soiled the surface as it was being tightened (goo in the bolt holes forced out by the bolts as they were installed)?

 

[IJ.]

Upside down gasket?

 

[GrimJack]

Oil in the head bolt holes?

 

[Nick M]

1j is an option. full swap is in the 2500-3000 range. About twice what a basic 7m rebuild would cost (assuming everything is re usable)

That was actually a snide comment on the JZ infallibility myth. I will be watching to see what you find on the leak.

Upside down gasket?

I have seen that. And he was a really good tech. Those things happen.

 

[Mk3runner]

upside down gasket crossed my mind as well.. As soon as I clicked on the thread it was my first thought.

 

[grimreaper]

What head bolts/studs are you using? Do they go all the way down in all block holes smoothly? To the same depth? Any chance contamination from inside the bolt holes soiled the surface as it was being tightened (goo in the bolt holes forced out by the bolts as they were installed)?

holes where cleaned with a thread restorer, vacced, brakekleened and countless amounts of paper towels twisted in and out. I felt confident they were spotless and no visible crude was seen.

I can tell you for a fact that the bottom of the gasket has less copper sealing material showing than the top. Seems very odd that its leaking from the head gasket without even having pressure behind it. Are you sure it isnt leaking from the coolant hard pipe behind the manifold? I would be more concerned that the machine shop messed up the head decking seeing as it ran before on a MHG without this issue.

My fisrt thought, but you can still see the rust lines from the water running down the block starting right at the block surface. (head was dry and clean) Head surface damage is possible.

Upside down gasket?

my one wish! it was installed correctly. New composites have a green layer of sealer around the oil drains. those were facing down onto the block. everything lined up.

Oil in the head bolt holes?

see above