kinda uninformed questions.... aka newb city

[NexiusEvaro]

greets!

(skip to the end for the question if ya want - the 1st part is background...)

I just got an 86.5 supra! I also just got the royal treatment by the dealer who sold it to me... at least it's startin to look that way... (edit - PICS IN THE NA PICS SECTION BTW)

(best attempt at not /ranting employed here mind ya...)

bottom line: I payed 2500 and a 94 minivan for an 86.5 na supra

It's in fairly good shape body and interior-wise (cept the leather seats) 188k on it, and the kicker... (you guessed it!) looks like a BHG...I know..I know.... shoulda have been better informed when i went in for my second supra (had an 83 mk for quite awhile till i got domesticated by my family....which apparently dulled my wits... well, that and the need to run like madman as far away from that damn minivan as possible might have had something to do with the poor decision makin abilities I employed that day...)

so here are a few questions for you guys that have "been here" before...

It's been leakin a fair amout of oil since i got it home... had a muffler shop do an appraisal on it and they are think the head gasket is shot... leaks toward the read left side of the block mainly... hard to see up in there exactly where though... its going to toyota for an appraisal on weds...

Toyota's price for a head gasket change was about $1100 & maybe another $500 or so more to do the water pump, timing belt, front and rear main seals.... the farm-out price from my usual shop was about $1000 for a new TB and HG.) I am in MT, haven't checked around tons, but the area is pretty limiting for this kind of work... Plus, the farm out work wouldn't be possible for a month or so, so the dealership ready to go when I am is starting to look pretty good.

My concern is that once they get in there .... $ will keep rackin up....and thanks to Dylan's mad useful mod site - (JAH BLESS YOU FOR DOING ALL THAT WORK DOCUMENTING YOUR MODS- YOU ARE INSANE AND MY CURRENT HERO !!!!!) I now fully realize I am incapable of doing the HG work myself....

I spent a good deal of time reading over the options available for us NA folk. Looks pretty grim TBH.... I was hoping to go turbo... but by the looks of things that would get messy very fast given my overall fund limitations, lack o skillz or equiptment... I love working on what I can mind ya... got a family now yada yada yada

I am quite happy to be in a supra again... great fun to drive and all....but I am pretty torn on the whole upgrade deal... End goal is to have a car that is moderately powerful (250-350 HP) AND/OR fairly quick...

I think i have a grasp of whats involved in the first approach and I think it's beyond the $3000 (i could maybe scrape together) to get the na engine in shape.... but if i gotta go in for a HG and god knows what else on an engine that's lookin at 200k, maybe i should go for a swap now... you see the conflict =)

My question is basically are there some methods of improving the na supra's low end response (ie. make it smooth and quick rather than just raw HP) ?

I have looked at some general mods such as sway bars and an alum axle.... Are there more like these that are good cost/performance effeciency-wise that would give the car more low end pick-up (trannys or rear end refits... maybe?)

the general consensus is once you go turbo its not possible to go back, so i figure if i never drive a turbo supra (ever) i will be ok with my na =)

very very torn... happy supra person again in so many ways... but torn

Thanks a bunch for your time and thoughts all....

Nex

Oh, one other little thing....I was also wondering what you guys recommend for security? - the stock update package isn't available from toyota anymore and they recommended (the decidedly informantive) "some west coast company"

 

[amd_hcds]

Well I'd say you defently need a GTE swap and if toyota is offering a head-gasket change for 1100$ you could get yourself a low mileage JDM GTE engine in swap it in and maybe put some more money and add a MHG & ARP head bolts and get a fast\relialable engine at the same time for the same amount of money

 

[Nick M]

Sounds kind of like the valve cover is leaking to me. But I havent seen the car.

 

[Fuzz420]

Long post but ill give u my insight

3k will have the gte in your car and with a few small things you can have comfortable 250hp.

188k on the original motor, you can improve responce by getting an inake and exhaust. From experience i did this with my old motor with 160k miles which was tired and it sped the process of blowing up dramatically.

I would say by a gte swap if power is in mind ,but if not jdm ge's can be had for cheaper than the price for a headgasket job

 

[s383mmber1]

I thought i had a BHG, untill i realised my valve seals were SHOT, replased them, and she runs like a champ.

Do the valve cover gaset and let us know how that goes!

And i wouldn't start thinking about 350 horses and speed/power untill shes running good for sure!

-William

 

[NexiusEvaro]

appreciate the insights....

be nice if it was something other than a 1k job right off the bat... i was hoping to do some of these things a ways down the line... (ie. when the engine went) but the gasket leak or whatever has kind of got me going on it sooner than expected....

my only concerns with a jdm swap to a GTE would be: 1) affording to get the job done... i do have some of the summer opening up but i have serious doubts that i could either do the work myself or afford to have it done... was gonna ask toyota here if they do swaps etc... guessin it depends on the shop.... but it really looks pretty damn involved TBH

and 2) from what I read a new metal HG is the first thing that ya need to do to a JDM GTE engine when ya get em...

Perhaps i misunderstood and this is only if yer going to do a lot of modding for heavy HP.... beyond the turbo and a few aesthetic things I want to do, I really doubt I will need to do a lot more mods power-wise...

(heh.... course there's a strong likelihood of developing - "i can stop modding anytime i want syndrome....")

anyway, thx for your input... keep it comin...

nex

 

[s383mmber1]

I wouldn't get my mind set on a metal head gasket, look into cometic ones. As for the JDM engine, it is smart to replace while it out, but i would change the valve cover gaskets now, as i thik thats the main problem. I just did mine and cost me 27 bucks. Easy job to!

 

[NexiusEvaro]

been doing more research... It is kinda tough as most of the posts go something like this...

Question: i have a BHG on an XX NA...<then sometime later> XXX turbo XXX??

Response: ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!

when you dig far enough back you often find a guide repeatedly linked (b4 peeps got sick of the same question being asked again and again and again)
- but then, the link is often dead... I'm surprised by the lack of stickies or forums dedicated to such common issues TBH....

I AM NOT saying the response is out of line - jahonlyknows how many times the question has been asked... but i can see why it keeps gettin asked as well to some degree...

with our babies hitting 20 now... (my 86.5 will be 20 in july...) & odometer readings up... questions on engine switches, upgrade paths, etc are gonna "continue and escalate (W. Burroughs)" imo

just something i have noticed... I have a few ideas still ...

what about me buying your already built and now discarded NA engine... maybe enough of a platform to build a turbo into down the line and be reliable and fun until i can get up the money, time, patience, skillz etc to do a real engine swap? Be good education for me and your built NA (maybe even some folks have set up for a turbo and decided to go 1J instead....) Gotta be cheaper than a new head gasket and the other ensuing madness that will be found....

Would it be necessary to get an engine thats from an 86.5-87 supra if i am stayin NA and i have an 86.5?

seems like a decent cost effective solution and a good start to swapping....

what do ya guys think?

I got more.... but gotta supra up to get a kid from school atm =) BBL

thanks!

Nex

 

[Fuzz420]

any 7mge motor will do even from the cressida.

 

[NexiusEvaro]

did a bit more research last night... couple quick questions and an update...

so any 7mge engine will work- regardless of the fact that i have an 86.5?

I was wondering if sensors or what have ya would have problems with the ECU in my car if i got a JDM engine from a year different than my car?

The car is gettin a second opinion assessment at the dealership & a compression test ... Prolly be considered a total waste of money, but I need to make an informed decision and I think a complete list of borked stuff on the car may help determine my next move

.....I am more than a little distrustful of peeps after getting shanked by the dealer that sold me the car...so im kinda seeing how straight up the dealership is gonna be with this evaluation versus what i already know to be wrong or right.

(The guy at the dealership used the fact that the ac had been redone to help sell me on the car and even showed me that it blew cold right away...

course i'm guessing now that the BHG is most likely the reason the air blows cold right away... be pretty damn funny if it wasn't true and I wasn't so smitten with the car already....

Will post results later on

'hanks

nex

 

[jdub]

I wouldn't get my mind set on a metal head gasket, look into cometic ones. As for the JDM engine, it is smart to replace while it out, but i would change the valve cover gaskets now, as i thik thats the main problem. I just did mine and cost me 27 bucks. Easy job to!

A Cometic IS a metal head gasket

 

[Fuzz420]

so any 7mge engine will work- regardless of the fact that i have an 86.5?


nex

Sure will , if infact u het a jdm ge you will have to use your oil pan becuase the two are different.

 

[NexiusEvaro]

well, its confirmed ... here's the info off the page i know I prolly paid too much for today...

28pt inspection

////vehicle failed block test
///Compression test = 1=185, 2=190, 3=195, 4-185, 5=200, 6=210
////Bore scoped all cylinders and all are scored & #6 is pitted
////Spark plug holes filled with oil
////Power steering pump is leaking
///oil pan gasket is leaking

OK ARE YA READY ??????????? (NA remember, not a GTE)

///used engine = $4000 (usd!)
///jap exchange=$4700
///Re Build=$5220

I was advised to rebuild cause its a sweet car - (yeah, i know it is...well, 'cept the engine an all... but the fact that i really like my damn supra and want to "save" it somehow really complicates things....not that I have any intention or finnancial ability to throw down 5k on a dealship rebuild at this point....

Albeit, I still can't quite get my head around the balls OR ignorance it would take to hand someone the whole freakin BHG causing a coolant leak turned (via salesman) into a total lie as proof of a reworked ac system when I bought the thing...Hard to come to grips with your own stupidity/gullibility at times /offrant

On the brighter side, I may have learned to do my homework B4 i buy stuff in the future....not that that will save ya always, stupid not to do it and just trust people though, i guess... *&#@! I said /offrant!

no idea what i am gonna do yet... car's still drivable, but hemmoraging oil (which bein the old hippie type - I just abhor...) and it's soaking the bell housing as well...imagine that will get to the clutch if it hasnt already...

ugh

nex

 

[ratpick63]

I feel your pain. I now own two (86.5 & 87) NA Supras that need the heads pulled, one for head gasket and one for proper valve job! At least I spent only $700 on one and $200 on the other! But now I won't be able to sell the extra homely 86.5 til I do some more serious wrenching. It sounds to me like you should find a good grease monkey and make friends real fast so you can save some labor $$$. I've been taken advantage of like that a few times. I don't think it'd be a bad idea to just buy a JDM GE motor and put it in like it is. It should be good for a while and then save a little and put a MHG and some other hop ups to it later. Could save your motor to rebuild for serious power or sell it to someone else that would want to.

 

[SupraMario]

LOL, who the hell did you bring that too,
for 5k you can have a 2jz in there.

 

[NexiusEvaro]

quotes are from the local toyota dealership repair center

heh

 

[SupraMario]

wow, thats a bit much, you going to do it yourself i hope?

 

[shaeff]

damn. i got my JDM GTE for $1400 shipped to my door, did all the work myself. i could have done it for less than $2000 if i didn't decide to upgrade the clutch, flywheel, etc... at the same time...

-shaeff

 

[NexiusEvaro]

I had a supra day yesterday... went to the bigger junkyards here - one was pretty good run out in the more rural area outside the "city" - visit with the attendant went sumthin like this....

me: here's a list of chassis and engine types i'm looking for...wondered if...

response: eh... we don't got any 6 cylinder toyota... don't know where to send ya....

the best part was heading back i get pulled over for speeding (with my 10 year old who was riding along skipping school cause his old man called in sick for him...)

don't know that i will ever have a prouder moment in front of the kid heh....

cop was cool and gave me a warning on account of me just getting the car (temp tag!) (and perhaps due in part to my wonderful arm theatre demonstrating my speedo meter's needle tending to bounce at certain speeds....)

When I got to the other big place in town, I was told that they can get me:

a "japanese take out" relatively complete 7MGE engine - (I'm assuming this is local speak for a JDM engine? similar to the dealership terms, but way cheaper.....)

40k miles or less, 30 day warr - just startup im assuming

delivered to the yard for $800

- guy warned me that they have had a lot of complaints that you have to take it down to the block when you install due to different engine comps in japan.... thanked him for his time and went to harbor freight for a few new tools

still mulling over the options (GTE, 1jz, 2jZ) - love the idea of a mostly stock 1jz for reliability and essentially a restoration job of this 86 i am in totally in love with, but I am scared to death of the swap in terms of cost & my own inexperience... think i could swing a 7MGE JDM install.... don't think i would dare risk the investment of anything higher though....

cars still a blast to drive, even with its engine in its golden years & bleeding to death =)

nex

 

[urbanpsycho]

Ha! I think my timing to buy my Supra was perfect!
I just got myself an 89 Turbo AT, and yes, I'm in Billings, MT.
I also have some problems with mine... such as it doesn't quite run
Either way.. I gotta start learning on something, and am willing to help you with whatever I can on your car