The problem is just that, I would have hoped that the party's involved would have more common sense then to play the blame game while people were dying in the streets.
Katrina Relief Efforts Not Quick Enough? Pffft..
- Thread starter drunk_medic
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lanky189
Guest
Anomili said:
gotta love career politicians...
its a shame people can make a living running our gov't.
the whole democracy idea was that the farmer bob would serve his time as senator..spread his ideas...then return home to the farm for plumber bill, or barrel maker sam to play their part..this career politician shit bugs me.. people always have to campaign in order to get paid.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Over the past week, I've been using shots from space to determine where houses are flooded, or completely gone. (Entire areas are wiped out from this storm.)
Anyway, I'm on the phone with this guy, just put his address into the system, and notice that near by there are a hundred or so white and yellow bricks... Zoom in an yep, it's the busses. (School busses in this case.)
There are about 200 of them in the sat photo. At just 40 per bus, that's 8000 less people stranded in the city. Did anyone use them? Nope, now they are all going to be rusty scrap metal.
I have not searched for the city bus yard, but I've heard it's even larger, with more busses in the photos. (350ish) So, 40 per bus, and you get the point. Nobody in government in NO did much to move anyone out of the city. (Moving to the Superdome is not going to help as everyone inside the city found out, and anyone with a brain could see coming when they were moving people there. My thought was WHAT THE? Why are they moving people to shelters under sea level? Get out of town, and get out now while you still can.... Nope, people stayed, and they died as a result of that poor choice.
Same goes for the looters. It started with greed, and then turned into panic as anyone caught in the city by rising flood water was left to fend for themselves, and heck, while we are picking up some food and water, why not pick up some new shoes and clothes, and that 50' plasma TV you've been wanting for a few years.
The media fed the fire, the elected officials of LA stuck their heads up each others ass, and ignored the situation while trying to lay blame on someone else.
Many of the people left in NO were so used to letting someone else determine their fate, that they did not make the choice to walk out of the city, and leave it. (Stories that the PD stopped them don't hold much water. 40,000 people walking out of the city are not going to be stopped by a few officers with riot gear and shot guns.) The masses did not try to leave, they were waiting to be saved, because they feel "entitled" to be saved. Just like they feel entitled to be supported while the rest of us work for a living.
Anyway, I'm on the phone with this guy, just put his address into the system, and notice that near by there are a hundred or so white and yellow bricks... Zoom in an yep, it's the busses. (School busses in this case.)
There are about 200 of them in the sat photo. At just 40 per bus, that's 8000 less people stranded in the city. Did anyone use them? Nope, now they are all going to be rusty scrap metal.
I have not searched for the city bus yard, but I've heard it's even larger, with more busses in the photos. (350ish) So, 40 per bus, and you get the point. Nobody in government in NO did much to move anyone out of the city. (Moving to the Superdome is not going to help as everyone inside the city found out, and anyone with a brain could see coming when they were moving people there. My thought was WHAT THE? Why are they moving people to shelters under sea level? Get out of town, and get out now while you still can.... Nope, people stayed, and they died as a result of that poor choice.
Same goes for the looters. It started with greed, and then turned into panic as anyone caught in the city by rising flood water was left to fend for themselves, and heck, while we are picking up some food and water, why not pick up some new shoes and clothes, and that 50' plasma TV you've been wanting for a few years.
The media fed the fire, the elected officials of LA stuck their heads up each others ass, and ignored the situation while trying to lay blame on someone else.
Many of the people left in NO were so used to letting someone else determine their fate, that they did not make the choice to walk out of the city, and leave it. (Stories that the PD stopped them don't hold much water. 40,000 people walking out of the city are not going to be stopped by a few officers with riot gear and shot guns.) The masses did not try to leave, they were waiting to be saved, because they feel "entitled" to be saved. Just like they feel entitled to be supported while the rest of us work for a living.
Lanky-Thanks for the "easy killa."
Greg-I apologize for what I said. I should've read the links that you posted, but when I saw the "mythical buses" thing, I couldn't believe that you haven't seen pictures of all the school buses just sitting in NOLA.
Please understand, guys and gals, that I'm a very passionate person when it comes to anything that I really care about. I've become very interested in politics during the last year. So much into it that I've actually read about it to further educate myself on it. I don't read unless it comes to cars or music, so maybe that stresses my interest in the subject.
I take politics so seriously because I care about this country so much. Another big reason is that I'm in the military and that the condition of our military directly effects the security of the freedoms of our nation.
I am a conservative, as I'm sure you've all gathered. I simply can't stand the ingrate Left's hypocritical America-hating agenda, their intolerance of anything that remotely opposes their views and their blatant ignorance of anything that matters.
Now before I continue and make this a significantly long post, I'll stop. You know how I feel and why I feel so strongly about it.
Please excuse me for getting so worked up so often. If you feel offended by anything I've said, I may very well have meant it, but I understand that this isn't really the place.
Greg-I apologize for what I said. I should've read the links that you posted, but when I saw the "mythical buses" thing, I couldn't believe that you haven't seen pictures of all the school buses just sitting in NOLA.
Please understand, guys and gals, that I'm a very passionate person when it comes to anything that I really care about. I've become very interested in politics during the last year. So much into it that I've actually read about it to further educate myself on it. I don't read unless it comes to cars or music, so maybe that stresses my interest in the subject.
I take politics so seriously because I care about this country so much. Another big reason is that I'm in the military and that the condition of our military directly effects the security of the freedoms of our nation.
I am a conservative, as I'm sure you've all gathered. I simply can't stand the ingrate Left's hypocritical America-hating agenda, their intolerance of anything that remotely opposes their views and their blatant ignorance of anything that matters.
Now before I continue and make this a significantly long post, I'll stop. You know how I feel and why I feel so strongly about it.
Please excuse me for getting so worked up so often. If you feel offended by anything I've said, I may very well have meant it, but I understand that this isn't really the place.
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I agree with adjuster on this as well. They mayor knew what was comming his way and knew that new orleans wasnt ready for a hurricane of that magnitude! If it would have been me I would have gathered my resources such as the busses and used them wisely and asked for the federal governments help where to place these people. I knew before the storm even came to shore that we were gonna get the brunt of it and what made it so deadly is that it was slow moving so you add that together plus new orleans being under sea level and sinking each year and what do ya get! I great answer to horror! I think bush shouldn't take full responsibility of it because he shouldn't be the one screaming orders to this mayor that already knew what to do. If he didn't which i doubt he should be asked to resign!
Didn't the Mayor of NO tie up something like 6 rescue crews just to save his own crap from his own house?
SP 7M said:
Apology accepted. Yes, as a matter of fact, I have seen the photo (just one photo) of school buses under water in NO. I just didn't see 2000 of them as Fox kept reporting. In fact, in one of the links I sent, there is another link to the State of Lousiana Dept of Education which shows just how many school buses there are in each district of the state. Orleans parish shows... 324.
http://www.doe.state.la.us/lde/uploads/2253.pdf
I am not defending ANY public official in this mess. The Mayor screwed up, the Governor screwed and the President screwed up. As a result, people suffered and many died. What I detest is the amount of mis-information kicked around and repeated as the truth to pull this person or that's ass out of the fire.
Good for you! ALL citizens should be involved in the activities of their government. Those that do not participate or vote have no reason to complain about the state of the nation. As for you serving our country in the military, good on you as well... but I must correct you on something. The military is but one agency among many that protect our security and freedoms. Some others are the Legislative and Judicial branches of the Government. These are elected and appointed civilians. Remember, the military works for civilians and THEY determine the condition.
Can't we all just get along without placing labels on each other. We're all Americans my friend. Everybody has had different life experiences so no one can look at the same thing and come to the same conclusions as you do. We're all different. I guess you'll have to deal with it.
Adjuster, my aunt has diabetes and can't walk very well. I sometimes wonder if I had been in NO if I could have walked out of the city with her.
Greg
There are differences between a label and the truth.Greg55_99 said:
Greg-Let's not forget that the military is the single biggest element of defense that we have. There are other agencies that protect our way of life, but none as important as the military. You know that.
Another great thread, by the way.
SP 7M said:
And, there are differences between the truth and an "opinion". What you may percieve as "the truth" may be, in fact, your opinion. Once again, what may be "the truth" to you may not be "the truth" to me because we have different backgrounds and experiences.
No, I don't know that. That too, is your opinion. It is my opinion that the Legislative and Judicial branches of the government affect and protect my freedoms moreso than the military. It was not the military that decided last month that private companies can take private land from their owners. It was the Supreme Court that did that. It was not the military that passed the Patriot Act. Congress did that. My way of life is affected and protected by the ink pens of elected or appointed civilians than by bullets. My way of life is under attack more from special interests and lobby groups than North Koreans or Iranians. As you well know, the military is not a branch of government.
Greg
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Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
If you think that Congress, or some pens and ink spewing from the courts of this land will save your ass when trouble comes knocking at the door, your in for a very rude awakening.
If you think we are above all that. If you think peace is just around the corner. If you think this country is infallable with it's laws and judges, and justice for all because of the law, your in for a rude awakening.
If you don't believe me, just read more history. This country is very young compared to others, but if you look along the time lines of other great powers the world has seen come and go, please take note that as soon as you minimalize the military's role in keeping order, and protecting freedom, and you allow the citizens to vote without responsibility, that civilization soon crumbles, and is consumed by it's neighbors and enemies.
More to the point, when the population votes to spread out the wealth to those that have not worked for it, and when the population turns to greed, lies and corruption, the government is in real peril.
What we need is less government handouts, and more personal responsibility. We need more energy development and less envrionmental propaganda. We need to maintain the best military to keep our foes fearfull of us, and to actally be capable of response to threats that challange freedom.
Hurricane Katrina will be just a memory in a few hundred years. The real question is, will the America we know, also just be a memory? The only way it's not going to fall, is if we vote for people in office that support values that maintain the country, and don't undermine it.
If you think we are above all that. If you think peace is just around the corner. If you think this country is infallable with it's laws and judges, and justice for all because of the law, your in for a rude awakening.
If you don't believe me, just read more history. This country is very young compared to others, but if you look along the time lines of other great powers the world has seen come and go, please take note that as soon as you minimalize the military's role in keeping order, and protecting freedom, and you allow the citizens to vote without responsibility, that civilization soon crumbles, and is consumed by it's neighbors and enemies.
More to the point, when the population votes to spread out the wealth to those that have not worked for it, and when the population turns to greed, lies and corruption, the government is in real peril.
What we need is less government handouts, and more personal responsibility. We need more energy development and less envrionmental propaganda. We need to maintain the best military to keep our foes fearfull of us, and to actally be capable of response to threats that challange freedom.
Hurricane Katrina will be just a memory in a few hundred years. The real question is, will the America we know, also just be a memory? The only way it's not going to fall, is if we vote for people in office that support values that maintain the country, and don't undermine it.
Adjuster said:
Can you explain what you mean by this?
As a side note, I am not for diminishing the role of the military. As anything, it is a tool. It is to protect us from enemies and extend our power overseas. However, when used unwisely, we suffer as citizens.
Greg
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Sure.
When this country was organized and planned by some pretty smart guys in the 1700's, they only allowed land owners to vote. Like it or not, this country started out with the reality that you must earn something to appreciate it.
Over the years, we have made huge strides in expanding freedom to everyone in this country. We abolished slavery. We allowed women to vote. We allowed everyone to vote, even those who have no land, pay little or no taxes, and don't work. (Draw your own conclusions there.)
Are we sure this is the best idea? The orginal concept was you were a productive part of society when your a land owner, and you could vote to have a say in what your taxes and rights should be. The government was controlled by those that owned the land that same government existed on.
Today, we are split right down the middle. Those who live in large cities on the coasts of this country tend to be very liberal, and vote for the likes of Hillary Clinton, and Nancy Pelosi.
The more rural areas of the country tend to vote conservative, and more for the likes of George Bush, and Ronald Reagan.
I read a book a few years ago about the fall of Roman civilization, and how it was directly tied to the ability of the citizens to vote, and that as they discovered how easy it was to vote themselves wealth, the military crumbled, could not protect them and they were overrun.
Free handouts to those that don't work to earn their keep, only leads to more people on the tit of government, and since we are so enlightened, and let everyone vote, it's only a matter of time before we crumble like the Romans. (And others who have tried this before.)
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think we should abolish our voting laws, or just cut off welfare. (Heck, think of all the helpless stranded people across the USA, even without the floodwaters.)
Much of the South is now going to need to be re-built. Those able bodied people who enjoyed the 2000.00 debit cards now need to earn their keep. There are jobs to be had cleaning up and rebuilding. Get to work and earn that money.
The other thing is right now, while the heavy equipment is in town, and the streets are already torn up, sewers and other infastructure in a tangle, let's build up dykes that will keep out a F5 hurricane. Build the sea walls that will control the flow of water better. To hell with the mud birds, and slugs. They will survive,and they will thrive. Perhaps next time around, these new higher, thicker walls will protect the city from distruction and flooding.
Just a few things to think about. How about this idea?
You are allowed to vote if you are in, or are honorably discharged from the military.
You are allowed to vote if you own land. (No renters allowed.) This would include men and women, gays and lesbians, blacks and hispanics and any other race or whatever. It's fair, but it's voting by those of us in the country who have a stake in this country beyond just "living here". We own some of it.
When this country was organized and planned by some pretty smart guys in the 1700's, they only allowed land owners to vote. Like it or not, this country started out with the reality that you must earn something to appreciate it.
Over the years, we have made huge strides in expanding freedom to everyone in this country. We abolished slavery. We allowed women to vote. We allowed everyone to vote, even those who have no land, pay little or no taxes, and don't work. (Draw your own conclusions there.)
Are we sure this is the best idea? The orginal concept was you were a productive part of society when your a land owner, and you could vote to have a say in what your taxes and rights should be. The government was controlled by those that owned the land that same government existed on.
Today, we are split right down the middle. Those who live in large cities on the coasts of this country tend to be very liberal, and vote for the likes of Hillary Clinton, and Nancy Pelosi.
The more rural areas of the country tend to vote conservative, and more for the likes of George Bush, and Ronald Reagan.
I read a book a few years ago about the fall of Roman civilization, and how it was directly tied to the ability of the citizens to vote, and that as they discovered how easy it was to vote themselves wealth, the military crumbled, could not protect them and they were overrun.
Free handouts to those that don't work to earn their keep, only leads to more people on the tit of government, and since we are so enlightened, and let everyone vote, it's only a matter of time before we crumble like the Romans. (And others who have tried this before.)
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think we should abolish our voting laws, or just cut off welfare. (Heck, think of all the helpless stranded people across the USA, even without the floodwaters.)
Much of the South is now going to need to be re-built. Those able bodied people who enjoyed the 2000.00 debit cards now need to earn their keep. There are jobs to be had cleaning up and rebuilding. Get to work and earn that money.
The other thing is right now, while the heavy equipment is in town, and the streets are already torn up, sewers and other infastructure in a tangle, let's build up dykes that will keep out a F5 hurricane. Build the sea walls that will control the flow of water better. To hell with the mud birds, and slugs. They will survive,and they will thrive. Perhaps next time around, these new higher, thicker walls will protect the city from distruction and flooding.
Just a few things to think about. How about this idea?
You are allowed to vote if you are in, or are honorably discharged from the military.
You are allowed to vote if you own land. (No renters allowed.) This would include men and women, gays and lesbians, blacks and hispanics and any other race or whatever. It's fair, but it's voting by those of us in the country who have a stake in this country beyond just "living here". We own some of it.
Is there flood insurance in NO?
and if there is how many people had it, doesnt this cover it all. I think it would.
and if there is how many people had it, doesnt this cover it all. I think it would.
Would you still have to pay taxes if you rent and didn't serve?
If not it'd be one hell of a tax loophole and half an income can buy more political influence than one vote.
If so what happened to "No taxation without representation!"?
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Well, as a renter, you would not pay property taxes, but like the rest of us, would pay income and sales taxes. Also fees for your cars and other items that are not fixed property like land and houses.
Pretty harsh? I don't think so. It would make everyone work hard to own a home so you could have a say in the political makeup of the country.
Not sure what that comment about flood insurance is directed at, but most of the people did not have flood insurance. Most of the people did not have comp on their cars either.
This would further improve the country by promoting marriage and civil unions, since the law would have to include anyone living in a household you own. (As a couple of course.) Your kids would not be able to vote untill they bought a home of their own, or married into a household with property.
Like it, or not, it would solve many of the political problems in this country caused by those who don't have, voting away the money of those that have worked hard to get ahead. (Poor taking from the rich.)
Politicians would have little reason to pander to those who don't own property. Welfare would die (Finally, we know it sucks, and does not work, so let's just do the right thing and kill that program before another generation of people is caught up in it.)
People would learn the power of self respect and earning what you get in life, and we would all be better for it.
Just my .02 political sense.
Pretty harsh? I don't think so. It would make everyone work hard to own a home so you could have a say in the political makeup of the country.
Not sure what that comment about flood insurance is directed at, but most of the people did not have flood insurance. Most of the people did not have comp on their cars either.
This would further improve the country by promoting marriage and civil unions, since the law would have to include anyone living in a household you own. (As a couple of course.) Your kids would not be able to vote untill they bought a home of their own, or married into a household with property.
Like it, or not, it would solve many of the political problems in this country caused by those who don't have, voting away the money of those that have worked hard to get ahead. (Poor taking from the rich.)
Politicians would have little reason to pander to those who don't own property. Welfare would die (Finally, we know it sucks, and does not work, so let's just do the right thing and kill that program before another generation of people is caught up in it.)
People would learn the power of self respect and earning what you get in life, and we would all be better for it.
Just my .02 political sense.
