It should start.... but won't.

[IndigoMKII]

Nope, doesnt start with starter fluid, or the gas in the cylinders from injectors. has spark now with no misses, at 10 degrees btdc. has compression ranging from 135 to 150 across all cyls. still doesnt start.

When cranking and pumping the throttle Ive noticed after excessive cranking gas vapor/combustion gases come out through the afm housing... (no filter on)..... Im beginning to think itd be possible theres a rag or something in the exhaust manifold causing it to back up??? dunno why else vapor would be going out that way as opposed to out the exhaust. once again Il state also that the static timing is dead on, unless someone custom re-keyed crank or cam pulleys to fuck with me haha. Dunno I guess Im just clutching at straws at this point.

Maybe I missed something or I don't know what but how do you know your electrical timing is at 10 degrees BTDC?

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

So you're positive you're getting a strong spark while the plug is IN the cylinder? I know you're going off of spark with a timing light but correct me if I'm wrong, the timing light goes off of the spark plug wire pulse, that doesn't mean the plug is firing a strong spark.

Yea the timing light goes off a magnetic pickup by wire pulse, Ive also checked spark at the plug with it out of the cylinder. I have a spark, its not the brightest blue spark, but id say its strong enough, and also its more grounded in the cylinder than out because it grounds to the head through the plug threads. Il slap another set of ngks in it, cheap enough.

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

Maybe I missed something or I don't know what but how do you know your electrical timing is at 10 degrees BTDC?

Timing light. with it cranking spark is at 10 btdc. set by tsrm.

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

With fuel vapor coming out of the afm it might be possible an intake valve is stuck in the open position allowing vapors to travel backward through the intake

Yea exactly, thats what gets me, it should have vaccuum pulling vapor in and through, out exhaust. But yea if a valve was stuck open it wouldnt have compression. I wish it didnt have compression because that would make sense.
And ontop of that as far as the internals go, if it turns over and it has compression, it should fire regardless of how its been rebuilt... right?

 

[jetjock]

Was really kinda joking....

So was I. Reading through the thread it's obvious what the real problem is.

 

[IndigoMKII]

So was I. Reading through the thread it's obvious what the real problem is.

Out of gas? lol

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

What the hell......Okay guys, so I took off ic pipe and accordion hose, and its right off the turbo elbow as well, and theres definitely vaccuum on the turbo elbow, and positive pressure coming out the throttlebody. the turbo turns by finger smoothly and has no play in out or axial, but when cranking it doesnt turn. how the fuck. the only way I could see that is if the cam timing was way off, reversed in fact. looks like im gonna pull this thing apart and have a looksee... Has anyone ever seen this?????

 

[SupraPieces]

if you have good compression but you are smelling fuel vapor backing up the intake out to the maf then something is awry with the timing... and about the fuel... how old is it? maybe if the car was sitting for awhile the fuel isn't good any longer...

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

but why would there be pressure flowing out of throttlebody? and vaccuum when you place your hand under the turbo elbow? even just cranking there should be a draw through and out the exhaust.... I mean Im just asknig, if this is normal to have its news to me....

 

[SupraPieces]

could your timing be 180 degrees out?

 

[SupraPieces]

try this... give the accessory belt a tug to try to rotate the crank without turning the crank pulley... My pulley slipped they key on my crank and that make setting timing an impossible task... even if it turns even a little bit (means the pulley is turning by itself because there is no way in hell your should be able to rotate the motor by pulling the accessory belts) timing can still be off..

 

[IndigoMKII]

Okay well something is very obvious during your last bit of information. If the turbo elbow is DRAWING in air and the throttle body is PUSHING air out, sounds like your 'exhaust stroke' is sucking while the 'intake stroke' is pushing. Piston is going down while the exhaust valve is open and the piston is going up while the intake valve is open. Timing sounds VERY off, mechanically.

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

just found it..... the machine shop put the cam gears on the camshafts in the first dowel hole when theyre supposed to be in the center one... cant see the difference til you take the pulley off ... so exhaust and intake about 60 deg off.....

 

[SupraPieces]

first of all HOORAY!!! second... it was a timing issue... third, find yourself a new shop with half a brain

 

[IndigoMKII]

Something funny but sad is the OP could of had the engine running 10 days ago if he listened to like the first 5 posts. "Check timing check timing check timing"

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

Yea yea, but theres a big difference between " its 180 off" or "check your timing" and if someone had said, " your cam pulley has 3 lign up dowels, and the head has 3, so you have to remove the cam pulley itself to see if theyre right." this I did not know. the shop even moved the dowel that was in the center hole of the camshaft to the far left, then put the center hole of the cam pulley onto the far left hole where the dowel is. thus when removing the bolt and washer it still appears normal even with the dowel in the correct hole. if it was off to one hole which is where it should have been It would have occurred to me.
So anyway thanks everyone, I know how much of a pain it can be to try and diagnose someones issue while never seeing it in real life. Ive learned to not trust a machine shop. I really do appreciate the help and input. If nothing else you guys pushed me to fuck with it every day til it resolved itself.

 

[jetjock]

Something funny but sad is the OP could of had the engine running 10 days ago if he listened to like the first 5 posts. "Check timing check timing check timing"

I agree. More listening and less Dunning–Kruger effect would've quickly solved this. It was clearly timing related from the beginning and became even more so as the thread wore on.

 

[SupraSean]

I dont think ive ever seen that happen before lol congrats

 

[IndigoMKII]

Yea yea, but theres a big difference between " its 180 off" or "check your timing" and if someone had said, " your cam pulley has 3 lign up dowels, and the head has 3, so you have to remove the cam pulley itself to see if theyre right." this I did not know. the shop even moved the dowel that was in the center hole of the camshaft to the far left, then put the center hole of the cam pulley onto the far left hole where the dowel is. thus when removing the bolt and washer it still appears normal even with the dowel in the correct hole. if it was off to one hole which is where it should have been It would have occurred to me.
So anyway thanks everyone, I know how much of a pain it can be to try and diagnose someones issue while never seeing it in real life. Ive learned to not trust a machine shop. I really do appreciate the help and input. If nothing else you guys pushed me to fuck with it every day til it resolved itself.

Did you think about pulling the valve covers off with the piston at the top of number one to verify that the valves were closed? Just a safe way to insure it's closed if you run across this again.

 

[WillWorkFoBoost]

Could do that, now that I know that the camgears can actually be installed wrong This will never happen again haha. yea Ive never heard it mentioned that anyones had this happen....
If the holes had 3 lineup dowels, it would be truly not possible to align wrong via notches on crank and cams.