why does everyone use the air to air intercoolers and not water to air? are they not as good as the air to air? i dont know much about this stuff so sorry if im asking something dumb.
thanx
thanx
intercoolers
- Thread starter latemevol24
- Start date
That's not a dumb question at all. It's an excellent question.
All things being equal, a water to air intercooler is VASTLY superior to an air to air unit. They will always outperform an air to air unit.
The reason why they aren't commonly used? Primarily it's complexity, reliability and cost. Think about it, an air to air unit is simply a big old chunk of metal. Provided you don't put a hole in it, it will pretty much continue to work indefinitely.
Weight has often brought up as a factor as well, but it's been my experience that the superior performance more than makes up for it.
A water to air setup has pumps, corrosion is an issue, the systems need some (but not much) maintenance, they have wiring, etc.
Most people don't know much about them, and there are really no "bolt on" kits and most people don't realize how VASTLY superior they are.
I've run them in some big turbo drag applications, and you'd be AMAZED as to how much timing you can run when your air intake temp is a flat 40 deg F (you need to run mostly crushed ice to get that) all the way down the track on a 98 degree day.
All things being equal, a water to air intercooler is VASTLY superior to an air to air unit. They will always outperform an air to air unit.
The reason why they aren't commonly used? Primarily it's complexity, reliability and cost. Think about it, an air to air unit is simply a big old chunk of metal. Provided you don't put a hole in it, it will pretty much continue to work indefinitely.
Weight has often brought up as a factor as well, but it's been my experience that the superior performance more than makes up for it.
A water to air setup has pumps, corrosion is an issue, the systems need some (but not much) maintenance, they have wiring, etc.
Most people don't know much about them, and there are really no "bolt on" kits and most people don't realize how VASTLY superior they are.
I've run them in some big turbo drag applications, and you'd be AMAZED as to how much timing you can run when your air intake temp is a flat 40 deg F (you need to run mostly crushed ice to get that) all the way down the track on a 98 degree day.
wow. i never knew water to air > air to air. since we're on the subject, what would be the pro's/con's of using a same side inlet/outlet vs a opposite side outlet IC on the 7M?
Primarily the direction you need the airflow to go.
Stock style intake will need both inlet/outlet on the same side.
FFIM will need inlet and outlet on opposite sides.
Whatever you decide, ensure that the airflow takes the shortest 'path' through the intercooler. An intercooler that runs the intake charge 6-8" from the top to the bottom will provide the same cooling, with less pressure loss, than one that runs 18-20" side to side (provided both have the same frontal area and thickness)
I'll get some pics of the FMIC I made for my '88 Turbo Camaro later tonight after work/school.
Stock style intake will need both inlet/outlet on the same side.
FFIM will need inlet and outlet on opposite sides.
Whatever you decide, ensure that the airflow takes the shortest 'path' through the intercooler. An intercooler that runs the intake charge 6-8" from the top to the bottom will provide the same cooling, with less pressure loss, than one that runs 18-20" side to side (provided both have the same frontal area and thickness)
I'll get some pics of the FMIC I made for my '88 Turbo Camaro later tonight after work/school.
Another issue with W2A is to cope with High HP the Hardware ends up HUGE and is difficult to install into a Mk3.
My W2A excelled in everyday driving stop/start whereas the A2A heatsoaks like a bitch and needs airflow to work. (W2A I used had a Rad/Pump and a Fan)
My W2A excelled in everyday driving stop/start whereas the A2A heatsoaks like a bitch and needs airflow to work. (W2A I used had a Rad/Pump and a Fan)
But why did you get rid of it Ian? I thought after a while of DDing in one session the coolant heated up to where you couldn't drive it hard due to hotter inlet temps??
Here is a link to everything you ever wanted to know about intercoolers.
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/techtalk.htm
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/techtalk.htm
gtsfirefighter
SM Expert on White trash
SS5k: Nah my system was a closed loop so it worked just like the Cooling system in the car, I got rid of it because it was only rated for 600 crank HP and I had passed that point long ago and the next size up wasn't going to fit without moving the motor somewhere else! (8" barrel that was a 6" and barely fitted)
I believe that a down fall to the water/air cooler setup would be the water can only cool it for so long. What will keep that water cool after maybe a 2 hour traffic back up and all. Water is good for instant cooling but after awhile it needs a recharge itself.
Air to Air may never cool like water can, but its more consistent over a more larger time frame of usage.
Air to Air may never cool like water can, but its more consistent over a more larger time frame of usage.
Like what was mentioned before, price, size, weight, complexity and more things to go wrong(reliability) are the down falls of the W2A system, on the lighter side, for a Toyota Mr2, a W2A would be ideal due to the rear engine setup. Just some thoughts.
Datsrboi;912248 said:
Untrue - you use a heat exchanger to cool off the water, just like you would cool using a FMIC.
John
starscream5000;910521 said:
Between the W2A and the A2A?
They were much the same pretty close to ambient, where the W2A won hands down was at low speeds due to the active cooling.
It's called nitrous oxide. NOS is a brand name of Holley's nitrous systems.
That said, yes - but honestly, you could do the same thing cheaper with CO2
That said, yes - but honestly, you could do the same thing cheaper with CO2
Doward;913435 said:
yes this is true... we have air to water after coolers with heat exhangers and pump systems on our cobalts. works great except the end plate needs a dual pass to get the coolant back to the exchanger faster
One of the biggest points to note with water-to-air intercoolers is that unless you are using ice or some auxiliary cooling method, the best case scenario is that the water temperature getting within 20 degrees of ambient and then AITs getting within 20 degrees of the water temperature. Combining the two results in a 40 degree difference between ambient air temperature and the air intake temperature at your throttle body. In a drag racing application where ice will easily last for the pass it's simple to get practically arctic intake temperatures. In a daily driven application that's not as feasible. An efficient air-to-air intercooler with appropriate airflow can get AITs within 20 degrees of ambient, which makes them an excellent option both for the performance advantage and simplicity sake.
For a good article on intercoolers, check out this article written by our foreman on our website - http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/...ticles.html?osCsid=1vi8ej1nnc5k1bpo83c40qebi0
Tom
For a good article on intercoolers, check out this article written by our foreman on our website - http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/...ticles.html?osCsid=1vi8ej1nnc5k1bpo83c40qebi0
Tom
A good point to note regarding water-to-air intercoolers is that unless there is ice or an auxiliary cooling system in place, the best case scenario is water temperature within 20 degrees of ambient and then air intake temperature within 20 degrees of the water. Combined that's a 40 degree gap between ambient air temp. and air temperature at the throttle body. In a drag racing applications where ice will most certainly last the duration of the pass, near arctic intake temperatures are possible. For daily driven cars, that's not as feasible.
On the other hand, an efficient air-to-air intercooler can get air intake temperatures within 20 degrees of ambient air temperature and will do so consistently with good airflow to the core. Air-to-air intercoolers typically can't produce sub ambient intake temps like water-to-air intercoolers can given the above scenario, but arguably have the performance advantage given their consistency in a street car application, and are a relatively simple intercooling solution.
For a great article on intercooler tech, check out this one written by our shop foreman - (Link: http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/...ticles.html?osCsid=1vi8ej1nnc5k1bpo83c40qebi0)
On the other hand, an efficient air-to-air intercooler can get air intake temperatures within 20 degrees of ambient air temperature and will do so consistently with good airflow to the core. Air-to-air intercoolers typically can't produce sub ambient intake temps like water-to-air intercoolers can given the above scenario, but arguably have the performance advantage given their consistency in a street car application, and are a relatively simple intercooling solution.
For a great article on intercooler tech, check out this one written by our shop foreman - (Link: http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/...ticles.html?osCsid=1vi8ej1nnc5k1bpo83c40qebi0)