intake manifolds

[dumbo]

wish i tried it with mine but now shes a na-t so what can i say


ohhh lets be serious man!!! just go turbo
:evil5:

You deserve to be informed, you made a fool of yourself. Since it seems you have done some reading on the 5.0, and the short runner manifold, and its upper end power, versus long runners and the high torque, why is having both a problem to you?




Good luck finding a stock 7MGE in proper running condition these days. If you do, ask the owner if you can do a test. Unplug the vacuum line to air intake control valve, and plug it. Then go drive it. That gives you the open plenum, just like the turbo manifold. My guess is rice boy will love that "kick" at 3500 rpm.



Throttle response? You mean with a short runner box manifold, the ECU will deliever fuel faster with that slower air velocity? How interesting.




You already have that. Except the retarded 90mm throttle body. Did you just pull that out of thin air, or was it beause you saw supercharged Cobras with 700rwhp with that throttle body, and think you will have the same?



Unlike the others, I think it is possible, just not likely. You will spend a ton of money. You need a short block to spin to 9000 RPM, and head and cam timing and lift to support that. Along with very high compression, and stand alone. Check defiant 7m's build thread. He has put in everything you can think of.

 

[amichie]

Have a look at a Cressida motor. It uses the turbo style intake plenum and throttle body.

It has peak torque at 1000rpm higher and makes the same peak power. It does make it a lot easier to change the spark plugs.

 

[935motorsports]

To answer your question, yes it will work.

Go to the junkyard and find a cressida with 7M. You will get the intake manifold, throttle body, and intake pipe that you need to make the conversion. You also need the coupler from the TB to the intake pipe, which has the ISC port in it

However, if you are planning on upgrading the throttle body, I would use the NA manifold. You can easily remove the throttle body Y pipe and bore it out for a big throttle body.

In this picture you can see the cressy TB, ISC coupler, and plastic intake pipe that you need:

 

[Nick M]

Have a look at a Cressida motor. It uses the turbo style intake plenum and throttle body.

It has peak torque at 1000rpm higher and makes the same peak power. It does make it a lot easier to change the spark plugs.

Actually, it doesn't have the same peak power, nor as much area under the curve.

It peaked at 190 in 1989 when the Cressida debuted with the 7MGE. It changed to 195 with refiguring. And if you ever drove one, it has this great "kick at 3500" or so. Because the manifold has a slow velocity. A small price to pay for flow at higher rpm, when it is harder to fill the cylinder. A problem erased by the intake air control system.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

Actually, it doesn't have the same peak power, nor as much area under the curve.

It peaked at 190 in 1989 when the Cressida debuted with the 7MGE. It changed to 195 with refiguring. And if you ever drove one, it has this great "kick at 3500" or so. Because the manifold has a slow velocity. A small price to pay for flow at higher rpm, when it is harder to fill the cylinder. A problem erased by the intake air control system.

You've explained it well, but for some reason, the topic creator doesn't understand this still.....

 

[Chaos_Performance]

well first of all this was for opinions and to see if anyone has tried this.
obviously they are all your opinions and never tried.

then i dont care what rustangs make for power or what they use for intakes i am talking about the supra and its capabilities.

and the 90mm throttle body isnt that big of a deal

and Nick M. I HATE RICERS AND THERE RICE MOBILES!!!! SO DONT EVER CALL ME RICE BOY!

this car will achieve 400 n/a hp and yes it will take time, money and lots of trial and error. no one said tuning a car was easy or cheap.

and no i will never put a turbo on this car even if i dont achieve my goal which i dont see y i couldnt.

defiant used parts off the shelf and some custom stuff too. and he achieved a great number but nothing is impossible. so custom machined pistons and heads are not cheap but will allow me to achieve my goal.

 

[Chaos_Performance]

and what i meant by the new manifold from the side is the ones that ppl are making and selling for 900 bucks. and if they didnt work then y would ppl still be making them??????

 

[jdub]

Here's a post Shawndude did over at SF a while back concerning Turbo vs NA at 100% (extremely unrealistic) Volumetric Efficiency and the amount of HP that can be attained:

Okay, here is what I've calculated:

Values used (didn't actually need all of these):
Bore 3.27"
Stroke 3.58"
Turbo efficiency 65%
Turbo engine base compression 8.4:1
N/a engine base compression 9.2:1
Temperature 30Celsius
Volumetric Efficiency 100%
Air pressure 14.7PSI
______________________

1) Turbo engine running at 7.35 PSI of boost (with values above) = 12:1 effective compression ratio.

2) Horsepower of Turbo engine at 6000 RPM @ 7.35 PSI(100%VE) = 319 hp.

*Before people get excited here, realize how unrealistic 100% VE is at this stage. Peak efficiency is at peak torque (around 3500 RPM stock) and drops from there. At more realistic 80%VE it calculates out to 255 Hp. The turbo engine peaks at 5600 RPM (hence less HP) and there you go 233 calculated Hp using the same values.

3) N/A engine running 6000 RPM, at 100%VE at 11:1 compression = 243 Hp (Efficiency is extremely hard to calculate, but it should be close, I think).

4) N/A engine running 7500 RPM at 100%VE at 11:1 compression = 291 Hp.

*At more realistic 90%VE at this high RPM for a very well matched (and resonance tuned) engine = 262 Hp.

___________________________

So what do we conclude? I don't know, but the claim was 60 hp from heads and cams alone, with NO other changes. Have anyone proved anything here, or did we just tie ourselves up in knots?

Cheers......Shawn.

Chassis dyno losses HP conversion link:
http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm

On a 3.0L motor, using custom pistons, a completely worked head, and cams...400 HP is impossible. Even if you increase displacement by stroking the motor, it's still going to be impossible. Defiant has about the most customized NA 7M motor I've even seen, and he still has not made 300 HP.

I seriously doubt using an "off -the-shelf" 7M turbo manifold is going to do much to help...a short runner custom manifold isn't going to do it either. You simply cannot move enough air through a 3.0L NA motor to make 400 HP happen.

Physics is your mistress here...she's a real bitch...she's coming after you with a 12" strap-on

 

[Poodles]

Only way you're going to hit 400HP as an N/A is by using nitrous, and nitrous is a form of forced induction...

The motor is simple not big enough to move enough air to reach those numbers, sorry to burst your bubble, but it's NOT happening.

 

[jdub]

Might want to read through this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62953

Defiant (Alan) stroked the motor to 101mm with an 85mm bore for 3.5L displacement...that meant custom everything. By his calculations, he still won't make 400 HP. Not trying to rain on your parade, but you gotta get a bit more realistic

 

[gaboonviper85]

rice boy......what now

 

[Nick M]

and the 90mm throttle body isnt that big of a deal

No, not a big deal. Just a waste of your time and money.

and Nick M. I HATE RICERS AND THERE RICE MOBILES!!!! SO DONT EVER CALL ME RICE BOY!

JDM in username=rice boy. Every one of you.

this car will achieve 400 n/a hp and yes it will take time, money and lots of trial and error. no one said tuning a car was easy or cheap.

Actually, lots of monkeys, especially here, say that it is easy. But of course somebody saying it doesn't make it so.

Good luck with the project. My advice, LSI F-body.

 

[gaboonviper85]

No, not a big deal. Just a waste of your time and money.



JDM in username=rice boy. Every one of you.



Actually, lots of monkeys, especially here, say that it is easy. But of course somebody saying it doesn't make it so.

Good luck with the project. My advice, LSI F-body.

Why wish good luck on a project that's goal is to do the impossible....it's been tried and it's proven to not work..

Have fun at failing is a more appropriate term I believe.

 

[Nick M]

Why be an ass to him? I wasn't. I was just straight.

 

[gaboonviper85]

Why be an ass to him? I wasn't. I was just straight.

yeah the rice boy comment was being an ass but everything else is just the truth...

He will fail no doubt....so I hope he has some fun while failing...

 

[jdub]

He will fail no doubt....so I hope he has some fun while failing...

Might as well...I know IJ sure has fun blowing motors up

 

[Nick M]

yeah the rice boy comment was being an ass

It sure wasn't.

 

[Poodles]

I think he needs this shirt...

 

[Ma70.Ent]

Ok, we all know where this thread is going. Closed.