Install ARP Head Studs W/O Removing Head

Saltdog

Satldog
Jul 3, 2005
21
0
0
Stoon
As my dad says " don't fix it, if it aint broke" I don't feel like replacing my stock head gasket but I would like to make sure it stays in place. Everyone says put in head studs instead of bolts because they torque more evenly.

I was wondering can I replace the stock bolts with ARP studs without removing the head?? Has anyone done this before??

Thanks
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
10,730
1
38
Valley of the Sun
Don't...you remove the clamping force and can compromise the seal. There's no point unless you have a BHG. Listen to your Dad ;)

You do want to do a re-torque if you've never done one. Take the torque up to 70 ft/lbs in 2-3 passes using the TRSM pattern. Change your valve cover gaskets and check your plugs while you're there.
 

Saltdog

Satldog
Jul 3, 2005
21
0
0
Stoon
Ok, I have done a retorque up to 70ft/lb, when I retorqued I found like many other supra owners that the back bolts were at 10ft/lbs, In otherwords they are stretching, and failing.

I have read other forums where guys have taken out bolts one by one and replaced them with ARP Bolts. Wouldn't I be able to do this with studs as well?
 

Boostedstr8six

I have better SA than you
Mar 30, 2005
401
0
16
Near Columbia, the river
jdub said:
Don't...you remove the clamping force and can compromise the seal. There's no point unless you have a BHG. Listen to your Dad ;)

You do want to do a re-torque if you've never done one. Take the torque up to 70 ft/lbs in 2-3 passes using the TRSM pattern. Change your valve cover gaskets and check your plugs while you're there.

What about one at a time while following the tsrm torque pattern? I would think the adjacent fasteners can maintain enough clamping force while a bolt is removed and replaced with a stud.

It would be a retorque, but better. :icon_bigg

edit: i must type slow...
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
10,730
1
38
Valley of the Sun
The reason your back head bolts were loose is from thermal expansion...specifically the difference in expansion rates between aluminum and steel. It happens at the rear of the motor because that is where the downpipe is....it's the hottest part of the engine bay. They are not failing or over stretched.

I have heard of replacing with studs one at a time myself. It could be done, but it's one of those things you won't hear me recommend. Too many variables...it's quite possible to induce a BHG.

If you do decide to make this attempt, the motor needs to be dead cold...at least overnight before you start. Don't forget to drop the washer in the head bolt hole 1st, then place the stud (threads coated in moly) in the hole. It's a light snug for the studs with an allen key...torque to the ARP spec that is on the sheet that comes with the studs.
 

Saltdog

Satldog
Jul 3, 2005
21
0
0
Stoon
jdub said:
The reason your back head bolts were loose is from thermal expansion...specifically the difference in expansion rates between aluminum and steel. It happens at the rear of the motor because that is where the downpipe is....it's the hottest part of the engine bay. They are not failing or over stretched.


First thanks for the reply, I understand that by replacing the bolts I might induce a hg failure.


Second please explain to me how the head bolts become loose from thermal expansion? I understand that there are different expansion rates. If the head expands different then the bolts stuff could get messed up while it is in the transition process but once everything is cooled off again shouldn't it all be back to where it started?? Please explain?

EDIT.. This heating and cooling slowly allows the bolts to loosen off, not stretch??
 
Last edited:

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
10,730
1
38
Valley of the Sun
Saltdog said:
EDIT.. This heating and cooling slowly allows the bolts to loosen off, not stretch??


This is correct ;)

Aluminum expands at almost twice the rate of steel...that combined with the factory torque on the head bolts (it's too low) causes the bolts to slowly loosen up over time. Eventually leading to the BHG we all know and love. The heat at the passenger side firewall area makes this area the most susceptible to this...almost every HG I've seen fail is at the #5 or #6 cylinder on the exhaust side. As loose as yours was, I'm very surprised the HG has not failed already.

This brings up a good point...yours is going to fail...just a question of when. The re-torque may have put it off for a while and putting ARP studs in is not going to stop it at this point. If I were you, I would start accumulating the parts/funds to do a HG replacement before it goes out completely...that way you can avoid getting coolant in your oil and FUBAR'ing the bearings. Rod knock is a very common occurrence after a BHG due to oil contamination...something you don't want to happen ;)
 

Saltdog

Satldog
Jul 3, 2005
21
0
0
Stoon
My head gasket might be ok, (key word MIGHT) I bought the car from a 50 year old guy 1st owner, he was not a car nut. Anyways, I did the retorque last summer. Drove the car all summer with now issues running at 8-9 psi. And I didn't baby the car around.

Mods
3 in exhaust (DIY pipe only)
3 in downpipe
2.5 ic piping
24X3X12 intercooler
 

Boostedstr8six

I have better SA than you
Mar 30, 2005
401
0
16
Near Columbia, the river
IJ. said:
Stock bolts don't "stretch" arghhhhhhh

Die Urban Supra Myth DIE!! ;)

They don't even come close to Yield even at 75 ft/lbs let alone 58!

Care to provide some data on that? I haven't looked into what material stock bolts are or what kind of tensile loads you get out of 58-75 lbs/ft. I'm only going on something I read about six years ago (SOGI writeup methinks).

I do wonder what kind of tensile load you get with a stock bolt torqued to 75 lbs/ft and thermal expansion on top of that, then multiply it by <insert number> heating/cooling cycles.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
38,728
0
0
62
I come from a land down under
Boosted: No hard data to hand sorry!

Going by diameter and pitch and the fact that Toyota DIDN'T use Silly Putty like everyone seems to thing I doubt they're anywhere near yield!

Same diameter and pitch in the bottom end and you don't hear of many 7M's fretting the Main caps ;)
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
10,730
1
38
Valley of the Sun
Stock head bolts can easily take 72 ft/lbs of torque:


From Reg Reimer's site:

Recently I purchased a pair of new head bolts from my local Toyota dealership. One bolt from the 1995 Supra 2JZ-GTE engines, as well as a new bolt from the 7M-GTE. I then contracted a local certified engineering metallurgical company to perform tensile strength tests on the head bolts to compare yield strengths and torque values.

I have lab data reports based on the ASTM A370 tensile test, giving tensile strength, yield strength, ultimate load, yield load, as well as deformation data and maximum tightening torque values for the head bolts from the 2JZ GTE and 7M-GTE engines. Some results of the test are given below.

7M head bolt is: 12mm-1.25mm thread pitch {Property Class 10.9 grade 8} yield strength=147,353 PSI... tensile strength=160,550 PSI... ultimate load=70,198 N... % elongation=17... % reduction of area=66 2J head bolt is: 11mm-1.25mm thread pitch {Property Class 10.9 grade 8} yield strength=148,948 PSI... tensile strength=162,581 PSI... ultimate load=68,997 N... % elongation=19... % reduction of area=66

The metals used in the head bolts of the 7M & 2JZ engines are identical in metallurgy +/- manufacturing S.P.C. This is a good material; it stretches smoothly in the plastic region of the curve before it snaps.

By calculating the unit strain for each of the different areas of bolts based on the average yield strength, the following total elongation numbers were calculated. The 7M bolt has a total elongation of .0134" {.3399mm}, and the 2JZ bolt has a total elongation of .01093" {.2775mm}.

By comparing the elongation differences of the bolts, related to the corresponding different thickness of the aluminum in the engines cylinder heads, and allowing for the total length of the bolt shank plus 50% of the length of the threads, the only apparent difference is that the 2JZ bolt has 36 percent more thread than the 7M bolt does. The 7M & 2JZ bolts appear to be designed with the same steel to aluminum expansion stretch theory. I believe the bolt designs are different only because of the different ratio of the bolts metal area versus the thickness of the aluminum cylinder heads the bolt is designed to hold down. The torquing procedure for the two head bolts is also different, as is the head gasket

Toyota service manuals say that the 7M engines head bolt torque specification is 52 to 58 ft. lbs. According to my findings the 52 to 58 ft. lbs. specification for the 7M might be too low a torque value to keep the bolt in acceptable tension, not to mention the normal compression of the head gasket after time. As mentioned earlier many 7M engines that experience head gasket failures have many head bolts that can be removed from the engines failed cylinders by hand, or are very loose when removed.

My calculations show that the 7M head bolts when torqued to the factory specifications of 52 to 58 ft. lbs. is in very low tension related to the bolts actual yield curve. Calculations based on my test data show torque values for the 7M head bolt could be as high as 68 ft. lbs. to 72 ft. lbs. without putting the bolt into the plastic region. On a cold engine this extra torque would allow more tension on the head bolts after the head gasket compresses to normal operating thickness.

Many Supra owners that can afford it are upgrading their 7M engine to the expensive HKS stopper type metal head gasket for the 7M engine. This gasket comes in a number of different thick nesses. My Company stocks the HKS gaskets and I ship them all over the world. The HKS gasket will hold well to over 20 PSI of boost over 400 hp as sea level with upgraded fuel and turbochargers. The factory head bolt torque may be satisfactory with a metal head gasket since metal head gaskets do not deform as much as the soft OEM gasket used in the 7M. I would still recommend torquing the bolts to 72-ft. lbs. When upgrading to Metal head gaskets much must be considered with regard to machine work and the finish of the engine block deck and cylinder head gasket surface. See the following link for full details on doing correct machine work to your engine
 

a_sesshoumaru

Suprita
Jan 7, 2007
455
0
0
El Salvador
i noticed when i rebuilt my supra that the bolts wasn&#180;t the problem, it&#180;s the washers, i took out three in pieces, they brake and let the head bolt to loose