Increasing Idle A/C Performance?

[jetjock]

Well, it's your car and you can use ES12a if you wish. Lets hope you don't end up like this guy though:

http://www.imcool.com/articles/aircondition/Porsche_928_Refrigerant_Fire.php

 

[gennro]

Well, it's your car and you can use ES12a if you wish. Lets hope you don't end up like this guy though:

http://www.imcool.com/articles/aircondition/Porsche_928_Refrigerant_Fire.php

Ahhh read the article looks like he had other issues that caused it to catch on fire would be no different if you had a leaking fuel hose, oil, etc

 

[jetjock]

Lmfao. OK, I'll defer to your reading skills, years of experience, and EPA certifications. You had your say, I had mine. Let the membership decide...

 

[CyFi6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtowzVzl_4

Skip to about 3 minutes, where the idiot is so confident that its safe, that he blasts open a can in his face in his sealed cab, and figures hed light up a smoke while hes at it.... admittedly i did use it in my mr2 a while ago, and it worked OK, but after doing a lot of research i evacuated it and went with r134a.

 

[gennro]

Now that is just being an idiot. Take can or r-12 or r-134 and do that in a closed area, may not blow up but you will reduce your lifespan.

 

[3p141592654]

R12 is pretty benign, not that I'd recommend it in your scuba tank though. http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r12.pdf

Under SNAP, provided you put the approved connectors on there are some alternatives to R12, but as JJ says, no shop will touch your system after that because they don't want to contaminate their machines. However, when it comes to the hydrocarbon replacements, they are not approved.

 

[jetjock]

He blow'd up real good.

The moronic introduction of ignition sources into an atmosphere of explosive gases aside here's the legal status of HC12a (what ES12a is) :

http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

It's not illegal to sell. It's definitely illegal for use in MVAC. Dumb too...

 

[gennro]

Good stuff to know Jetjock. Seems like this ES-12a is just a huge scam and all the companies selling it are very misleading. Going to go get me a R-134a retrofit kit today!

 

[jetjock]

HC blends are effective refrigerants but have always been controversial for MVAC use. The gum'mint doesn't want them used in cars mainly because of the lines aren't hard plumbed like they are in fixed systems. It's what happened to that guy's Porsche. Legalities aside it's your call but all things considered R12 isn't that expensive, it works best, and there's still plenty of it around. I'll bet you've spent a lot more on other car stuff. Course, you'll need a license to buy it but that can be had for $20 online.

It also helps to understand my perspective. I was a long time engineer before getting into this gig. I'm used to being safety oriented where I always try do things right and leave as little to chance as possible lest very bad things happen. Smokin' holes, body parts, you get the idea. It's just the nature of my beast...

 

[gennro]

Its all good just did Arctic freeze R-134a from advance auto and having vent temps of 50F degrees in 90F degree weather at idle in my hot ass garage. Yeah I just had no idea that ES-12a was that dangerous to use because none of the sites that sell it say otherwise and praise how great it is.

But anyways I put a vacuum on my system of 10" and charged the system up to 50psi that the Arctic Freeze said to do at 90F.
Also the system was already converted for R-134 use so no issues with the oil or seals.

Already like this Arctic Freeze much better doesn't seem to load the engine down as bad as the es-12 did also.

 

[jetjock]

10 inches? Ugh. Ah well, since the system wasn't open long you might get away with it. And at least you didn't use Freeze 12. That stuff is bad news...

 

[Nick M]

In fact I didn't still have another car that uses R12 I would get rid of the 25 pounds or so of it I still have.

If you don't need it down the road, let me know. Don't dump it from a plane with your Supra.

What is the 608? Aircraft?

 

[jetjock]

My Delorean still uses it Nick but I'll let you know when it's time. Last I checked it was close to being a full 30 pounder.

608 is non-MVAC. There are three levels to it. A 608 Universal allows one to work on pretty much any type/size system. It's a little tougher to get than a 609

 

[jdub]

Name calling and flame war deleted...

I just want to make sure everyone that reads this understands the concept of "illegal" - you might not get caught, but you are liable for the results if an accident happens. A lawyer would be all over this in a civil suit. That's because it's "dangerous" (maybe that's why it's illegal?). You may very well be able to use metal lines or shield the ones you have. All that goes out the window in a front end accident - rupture a line and you have an instant fire bomb under the hood. No one should ever think that using HC based refrigerants in a car AC system is even remotely a good idea - even if there are thousands of other people doing so. Just because thousands of others are being stupid doesn't mean you have to be too.

 

[gennro]

Name calling and flame war deleted...

I just want to make sure everyone that reads this understands the concept of "illegal" - you might not get caught, but you are liable for the results if an accident happens. A lawyer would be all over this in a civil suit. That's because it's "dangerous" (maybe that's why it's illegal?). You may very well be able to use metal lines or shield the ones you have. All that goes out the window in a front end accident - rupture a line and you have an instant fire bomb under the hood. No one should ever think that using HC based refrigerants in a car AC system is even remotely a good idea - even if there are thousands of other people doing so. Just because thousands of others are being stupid doesn't mean you have to be too.

It doesn't help though that the websites that sell the HC products are very misleading and don't say anything about it being illegal to use or how flammable it is or even what it is made of. Then there is a lot of misleading information about it on the internet also.


Also someone needs to make a thread and stickie it so that people know about this stuff and not to buy it!

 

[jetjock]

It appears I missed whatever fireworks occurred but nice to know the mods were on top of it. I did receive some PMs from a poster in this thread however. My thanks go out to him for the entertainment.

It doesn't help though that the websites that sell the HC products are very misleading.....

What doesn't help is being cheap. The market for these refrigerants is no different than other markets that thrive off people looking to do things for as little money as possible. As long as they exist there'll be plenty of firms willing to take advantage of them and the MKIII community seems to have an excess of such folks...

 

[Nick M]

My Delorean still uses it

 

[jetjock]

Come on, I have to deal with that stuff all the time (jeez, now I'm even doing it) as it is. I don't need more from Kenny and you

The AC in it works great btw. R12 at it's finest...

 

[casgallo]

Quick side question... I charged my A/C using R-12 after sucking down to almost 30" vaccum. Just wondering if there is anything common that would cause it not to blow real cold. It does work and gets cold but not cold cold... Unfortunatly I do not have any measured vent temps but I drive many cars per day and it seems mine isn't nearly as cold. (and these cars are r-134 and even a few retrofits.) My A/C system was wide open for probably years. FWIW I changed the condensor with a parallel flow type and changed the reciever dryer. Could it possibly be moisture in the system? Are those flushing system a good idea/ safe to use? Thanks SM 'experts'

 

[Nick M]

Quick side question... I charged my A/C using R-12 after sucking down to almost 30" vaccum. Just wondering if there is anything common that would cause it not to blow real cold. It does work and gets cold but not cold cold... Unfortunatly I do not have any measured vent temps but I drive many cars per day and it seems mine isn't nearly as cold. (and these cars are r-134 and even a few retrofits.) My A/C system was wide open for probably years. FWIW I changed the condensor with a parallel flow type and changed the reciever dryer. Could it possibly be moisture in the system? Are those flushing system a good idea/ safe to use? Thanks SM 'experts'

A temp guage in a store like Autzone or CSK should carry it. Or the grocery store. You also need a manifold gauge to see why the pressures are not correct. There is a direct correlation to temperature and pressures. For example, if you know the fan doesn't operate in front of the condensor, you will have higher high side and low side, and lower cooling ability. Provided the blend air door is not over the heater, and the heater valve is closed.