Ignition problem. Ignition Coil Works. Ecu Prob?

[TurboFreak]

So I got a new ignitor coil because I tested the old one and thought it was bad. Wrong.

Checked for spark at the ignitor coil via the TSRM. No spark.

So we have come to the conclusion that the Coil/Ignitor isn't getting a signal to fire.
Going to check the ECU side of things now....

Any help, advice, things to try, links to good info would be helpful.

 

[TurboFreak]

K so we tested a bunch of stuff on the ECU. Heres what we found.

We tested the negative to E1(ecu ground) and the positive to +B and +B1. We also tested the BATT pin (positive) to a body ground.
Results:
+B - Has no power going to it.
+B1 - Has power going to it.
BATT- Has no power going to it.
Use this page for reference:

My father is convinced that the EFI Main Relay sistuation is casuing this can anyone confirm??

EFI main Relay situation(I did not do this)(the alt100 fuseable link has been replaced since picture):

 

[TurboFreak]

Help me Help me Help me

 

[jetjock]

I remember this from the fusible link. You still haven't put in a main relay? Bad news.

Answer these questions:

1) What is that thing plugged into the main relay socket? A fuse? If memory serves me you'd better hope so.

2) Is it plugged into pins 7 and 8?

3) Has the car ever run with that setup? Off the top of my head I don't see how it could.

 

[TurboFreak]

I know I still haven't replaced it. A friend has one he can give me but hes about an hour away. Just haven't ran down there and picked it up yet.

1) Definitely a fuse
2) Yes, any other pins and the car wont even turn over.
3) I don't know if it has ever ran like this. Could you explain why it isn't possible?(Definitely not doubting you but would just like to learn more and figure out exactly why.)

 

[jetjock]

What do you mean won't turn over? The main relay circuit has nothing to do with the engine being able to crank.

One at a time:

1) Batt is power right from the battery, through the EFI fuse and 30 amp FL. If you have no power on Batt it's not a main relay problem.

2) +B and +B1 are powered from the main relay socket and also originate through the EFI fuse and 30 amp FL. Since they're the same wire I find it difficult to believe you have power on +B1 but none on +B. You should either have power on both or no power on either. Based on the photo you shouldn't have power on either.

3) Unless the N/A cars are wired different from turbo cars the jumper you have in the main relay socket is directly shorting the ecu main relay control output to ground. Bad news. Pins 5 and 6, which you have empty, are what supply power to the ecu on +B and +B1. That's why it shouldn't run the way you have it.

If the jumper is a fuse be sure to check that it's still good. Turn the key off, remove the jumper, and measure all 4 pins to ground. Only one will have 12 volts. If it's pin 5 or 6 move the jumper/fuse to the right ie; install it across pins 5 and 6.

Power should now appear on +B and +B1 and the ecu should come alive when the key is turned to on. If so don't operate the car like this. Get a main relay installed. If the ecu doesn't come back alive after you've installed the relay the ecu main relay control output has been fried, which is what could happen since it was shorted to ground by having the jumper where you have it now. All depends on whether that fused jumper blew or not.

Finally, find out why there is no power on Batt. That's going to be a separate problem having nothing to do with the main relay circuit.

 

[TurboFreak]

K so Just went out and checked again. I switched the fuse thing on the relay because pin 5 was the one with the 12 volts. the fuse is now in pins 5 and 6.

Checked the ECU again.
Power to the BATT. Check.
Power to +B. Check.
Power to +B1. Check.


So now what? I need to go get that EFI relay before anything else?

BTW Still no CEL.

 

[jetjock]

Jeez, imagine that.

Assuming everything else is OK the engine should run. The problem is the main relay controls the entire EFI system and normally shuts off a few seconds after the key is turned off. Without it a bunch of things in the system are going to be on all the time even with the key off. Not only will that drain your battery but it could burn certain stuff up. Put one in. I'm assuming you didn't find the fuse in the jumper or the EFI fuse blown. That doesn't bode well for the ecu but with a little luck that part of it survived. You won't know until you put the relay in.

You're welcome btw....

 

[TurboFreak]

I really do appreciate your help. I'm just excited about trying to get this thing running. Thank you!!

I still don't think it'll fire up but hopefully I have spark now. I'm pretty sure my fuel pump or something of that nature is fried, as I cannot here it turn on when I turn the key to on. I suppose I could undo the cold start injector or something else that would shoot fuel to see if I'm getting any...

Thanks again!!!!!

Ninja Edit: But still why no CEL? Could I really not be throwing any codes????

 

[jetjock]

The fuel pump doesn't run with the key on. It only runs when cranking and after starting. Either push on the plate in the AFM or jumper B to FP in the diag block to check the pump. You should hear fuel in the rail. You can also pop the plastic cap off the pulsation damper and look for the little bolt to be standing up, signifying fuel pressure.

No CEL could be a bad bulb. See that terminal marked "W" in the ecu connector photo? With the key on carefully touch a grounded jumper wire to it. The CEL should light. If it doesn't either the bulb or wiring to it is bad. Check the gauge fuse too. If the CEL lights when you ground W the ecu likely has a problem.

If the bulb doesn't work connect your voltmeter to any +12 terminal (Batt for example) and terminal W. Then jump E and T in the block same as you would for checking codes. Turn the key on and count the number of times the voltmeter pulses and treat that as you would the CEL. If the voltmeter doesn't show any change the ecu is not working.

There's another way to check for codes but I'll leave it for another time...