Idling Help Need....

IBoughtASupra

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Mar 10, 2009
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Queens, NY
The problem is that my car will idle at 450RPM and will have an intermediate miss.

Things I Have Tried:

Checked Timing - Set to 10 Degrees
Check Codes -None
Vacuum Leaks, None, Vacuum is at 21.

My throttle body was painted and it did not return back normally, so I have to change it. Upon changing it I got a code 51, so now I am going to adjust the TPS on the car until the light stop blinking since Code 51 is a real time code.

I did not check my ISCV yet which will be the next thing I do after fixing the Code 51. I have a new engine harness as well, so it is not likely to be a wiring issue.

I believe it might be the ISCV because when I push down on the throttle body in the opposite direction, the direction that closes it, the car will stall. I don't believe this is supposed to happen because the car should idle from the air through the ISCV, right?

Lastly, after placing the different throttle body on, I checked timing again with the pins jumped and I could not tell where it was since the notch was moving back and fourth. It was not doing that before changing the throttle body. Could a Code 51 affect setting timing?

Any thoughts and suggestions welcomed. Thanks.
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
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Feb 10, 2006
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Look at the TSRM cause for code 51 - it's the IDL signal from the TPS which tells the ECU to go into idle mode. It needs to be fixed before you do anything else - you cannot set timing and the ISVC will not work at idle until you do. The TB plate should be full closed at idle. If you have a TB with the air bypass screw (early models), it should be screwed in full closed.
 

IBoughtASupra

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Mar 10, 2009
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Ok, I fixed the Code 51 by adjusting it on the car. No codes now. I am currently wiring the electric fans but having some lunch now. I did not have it one and when checking the car I would have to constantly watch the heat gauge, but now it will be wired up.

I am going to check the ISCV after finishing the wiring of the electric fans.

Another question, my clutch pedal has to come up kind of high to engage the clutch. That can be because the clutch might need replacing soon but it was on my other car which never drove. I replaced the slave cylinder and clutch cylinder because I was not getting no pressure before. What can cause that, maybe bleeding it? I did bleed it until I got really good pressure. It is a ClutchMasters clutch kit.

I did listen to Jetjock before he posted his post. LOL! I read around and searched and read that the idle system does not work when code 51 is present. That is why I said in my first post I will fix code 51 before I do anything else. :D
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
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You did: "Checked Timing - Set to 10 Degrees" That's impossible with a code 51 :)
 

IBoughtASupra

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Mar 10, 2009
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IBoughtASupra;1547173 said:
The problem is that my car will idle at 450RPM and will have an intermediate miss.

Things I Have Tried:

Checked Timing - Set to 10 Degrees
Check Codes -None
Vacuum Leaks, None, Vacuum is at 21.

My throttle body was painted and it did not return back normally, so I have to change it. Upon changing it I got a code 51, so now I am going to adjust the TPS on the car until the light stop blinking since Code 51 is a real time code.

I did not check my ISCV yet which will be the next thing I do after fixing the Code 51. I have a new engine harness as well, so it is not likely to be a wiring issue.

I believe it might be the ISCV because when I push down on the throttle body in the opposite direction, the direction that closes it, the car will stall. I don't believe this is supposed to happen because the car should idle from the air through the ISCV, right?

Lastly, after placing the different throttle body on, I checked timing again with the pins jumped and I could not tell where it was since the notch was moving back and fourth. It was not doing that before changing the throttle body. Could a Code 51 affect setting timing?

Any thoughts and suggestions welcomed. Thanks.

:D

I did the timing before I got code 51. Read it again. I said "upon changing" my throttle I got Code 51. No insult intended.

It is now taken care of, I don't have any codes now. So, now I can recheck the timing and check out the ISCV. I wired in my fans today and routed all the wiring properly and will install the temperature sensor on Monday. I am not doing anything else today since I have a test Monday and will need to study. School before the Supra.

I now have no codes and a properly calibrated TPS. If the ISCV is fine, what should be my next things to take a look at. Thanks.
 

Sawbladz

Supramania Contributor
Mar 14, 2006
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Oshawa, ON, CA
I am having the same problem with my TPS and I would like your input on adjusting the TPS. What did you insert between the throttle lever and the stop screw?

My car is idling quite high. Around 15-1700.

I went out and looked again and when the linkage is not being touched there is a gap between the lever and the screw. Should I adjust the stop until the lever just makes contact with the screw? Then readjust my TPS from there?

I checked the TPS with my multimeter and found that were was continuity on the right two pins when fully closed but if I moved it even slightly there wasn't. It seems to me that it should be functioning properly even though the stop appears to be out of adjustment.
 
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IBoughtASupra

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It should be touching the throttle stop screw. I used this to calibrate the TPS.... http://mkiiisupra.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=12132&highlight=guide+cam

That worked for me, but I found if you jump the pins on the diagnostic block to check for codes, then move the TPS couter clockwise or clockwise a very little at a time, then go back in the car and take a look at the check engine light. Code 51 is a real time code, so when it is fixed, it will go away without needed to be cleared by removing the EFI fuse. I did this three times and it works. I get the correct resistance when I check the TPS as well.

The hardest part about this method is getting to unscrew the lower TPS screw. You should not have that problem because you have a front face intake manifold. For anyone who is using the stock manifold, I did not remove anything but used one of those screwdrivers shaped like an "S." You might have to remove the ISCV hose assembly and move it out of the way. I did not have that on my car at the time when I did this, so I won't be able to say.

Sawblades, I am not sure how you should rotate the TPS first though, but try counter clockwise first since it worked for me.
 

Sawbladz

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Mar 14, 2006
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Ok, I tried this for a while with no luck. I did the WOT and fully closed checks at all the pins listed and my resistances were all within spec. I then put a 0.5mm spacer in the throttle stop and checked for resistance and I can't get it close. I set the mulit meter to 20k ohms. Target value is 2.3kohms. Rotate it clockwise and it goes from 0.5ish to infinite at a certain point but there is nowhere in the range that matches the target value. I tried to set the TPS as close as possible to this point and then checked my CEL. Still have a code 51. There is no way this should be this hard. Any advice?
 

jetjock

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Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
Have you checked the wiring? Read about code 51 in the electrical/ecu section? You know, for a guy who joined in 2006 and has amassed nearly 1700 posts you seem lost about a lot of things that have been covered here many times. Oh wait....you're Canadian :)
 

grimreaper

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Jul 2, 2008
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eh?


try this out, credit to jetjock of course

Voltage drop testing is a technique used to find very small resistances, especially when the circuit is under load. It's nothing more than Ohm's Law in action. It involves using the meter on the millivolt scale and measuring points along the same conductor rather than from one conductor to another (like from +12 to ground) as is typically done when measuring voltage. Any resistance between the two measured points will cause current to flow through the meter. The more resistance the higher the voltage will be.

Anything more than 100-200 mv needs to be corrected. Conversely, the lower the voltage the better the connection is. Perfect connections would have zero volts across them but it's near impossible to do that without using special termination techniques and materials. Gold comes to mind because it doesn't oxidize. For those that don't know the contacts in your ECU are gold flashed for this reason. The connector pins and receptacles (called a "pulselock" type by Toyota) are especially made for this purpose and of very high quality.

Anyway, lets take the main ground as an example. Set your meter to DC millivolts and place some load on the circuit ie; start the engine and turn on the headlights or heater blower. Place one meter probe (doesn't matter which) on the battery negative post. On the post mind you, not the battery clamp. Place the other probe on the engine block. Ignore polarity indication. If you get more than 200 mv work your way back along the main ground. When you find the location of the loss the voltage will decrease.

You can also start at the same point and move forward along the circuit path. For example place both probes on the battery negative post. You should get zero millivolts or very close to zero. Leaving one probe on the post move the other to the negative clamp then (if possible) to the wire exiting the clamp. Follow along to the next accessible point ie; the negative terminal at the block, then the head of the bolt connecting the terminal to the block, then the block itself. As you move along the voltage will increase in proportion to the amount of resistance found in the path. Anything over 100-200 mv should be corrected by cleaning, re-crimping, replacement, etc.

Course, once you find a "bad" connection and repair it you can place the meter probes on either side of it. You can do this from the git-go too. Say you find 500 mv between the negative cable terminal and the head of the bolt on the block, indicating unacceptable resistance in that connection. Remove and clean the surfaces then check it again by measuring directly across those two points. If you can't get the voltage below 200 mv the problem might be a bad crimp or corrosion in the wire/terminal interface itself. Check by measuring between the terminal and wire entering it if it's visible or by piercing the insulation if it's not.

Your goal is to make the voltage as low as possible or at least below 200 mv when measured between two points, including the entire circuit path ie; from the battery negative post to the block. I'm very anal about electrical stuff but during my last check I found 700 mv on my main ground. The problem was the interface between the negative terminal and the bolt on the block. Keep in mind the electrical system exhibited zero symptoms with that amount of loss. It's still unacceptable though because it would have gotten worse with time until symptoms did devolop. Long before the car would refuse to start the connection would have begun heating. Cleaning reduced the drop to 50 mv. I've yet to work on a car (any car) more than a few years old that didn't have excessive drop in it's main battery/charging circuit.

The technique works on any path. In his case (losses at the ECU connector) extend one meter probe using wire. Place the long probe on the battery positive and the other on the clamp. If that connection checks out you can move the positive post probe to the clamp so as to make it easier to attach. Take the other probe (along with the meter) and check any of the + connections at the ECU. If you find more than 200 mv work backwards.

Alternately, you can check across every connection using both probes. That way you won't have to extend one. It's best to test total drop from one end of the circuit to the other in the beginning though. That way you'll know right away if there's excessive drop. Needless to say doing drop testing requires accessing every point along the circuit where the conductor is "broken" by some device. Relays and their sockets, relay contacts, switches, terminal block, crimps, on and on. That's why it's best to measure total drop first. If it's OK you can move on to another circuit.

Another technique is to simply take a long jumper and bypass the path to see if the symptom you're having disappears. The method is crude however and doesn't pinpoint the fault. It's quick and dirty though.

The key things to remember when doing voltage drop testing are:

1) Make sure meter connections are electrically solid because any resistance in them will effect measurement. Don't be probing through dirt, oil, or grime for example. Make sure the meter probes are clean too. Scotchbrite them if need be, a good thing to do on occasion anyway.

2) The circuit must be under some load. The more the better. You can't do voltage drop testing without current flowing. When dealing with main power paths like the battery cables turn on the lights, blower, etc. With circuits like the ECU power, instruments, lighting, etc, the load they draw on their own will be enough.

3) Think about what you're doing. Be sure to probe every connection, say a relay's pin and it's socket. Any such "interruption" along a wire is a potential source of resistance and thus drop. Think in terms of moving the probes as close together as possible while still remaining on either side of a connection while it's under load. It's similar to how you'd do resistance testing except drop testing is capable of finding very small resistances your ohmmeter can't. (It takes a special type of ohmmeter to measure very low resistances).

If you find the drop across a wire itself (by probing or piercing it's insulation at either end) is more than 100 mv the wire is either bad or too small for the job. With stock wiring that's unlikely (even when old) but still possible. Put another way excessive drops (more than 100 mv) are almost always a connection problem along the conductor and not the conductor itself.

Voltage drop is a very useful form of electrical testing. Google the term for more details. The Net is more than a global pornography network you know -Jetjock


Although if its broken wire, a resistance check should find it quickly.
 

Sawbladz

Supramania Contributor
Mar 14, 2006
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I was just getting frustrated. Seems like this problem is in the wiring harness. Just like every other problem I've had. Looks like I will probably be pulling it back out again. It's times like this that I wished I had modified my own harness instead of using the one already "done".
 

IBoughtASupra

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Mar 10, 2009
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Queens, NY
I never understand why people who are going to spend money in upgrading internals and boring and changing turbos and manifold, don't lay the extra money down and get a new engine harness. It is what I did so I could eliminate wiring problems on my engine harness side of things. If a problem existed with a sensor, I would know that it needed to be calibrated, like the TPS, or changed.

I ordered a new engine harness for my build and it is worth it. You won't have a code 51 if all the values check out. Do it the way I told you if the calibration using the feeler gauges seems hard to do. If some how you manage to get a code 51 and your values are correct, then you might need a new TPS but I doubt that would happen. It is amazing to see parts from 1989 work 21 years later. Too bad cars are not built the same way they were 20 years ago......the 90's.....good years for import sport cars.