**I have a question about down shifting**
- Thread starter TuRbOdReAmZ87
- Start date
ksddh'sadgh
THERE IS NOTHING TO IT.
Push clutch in, pull out of gear into neutral.
Let off clutch while in neutral (resynchs the synchros)
Push clutch back in, and go to gear.
THERE IS NOTHING TO IT.
Push clutch in, pull out of gear into neutral.
Let off clutch while in neutral (resynchs the synchros)
Push clutch back in, and go to gear.
yeah, doward is right. and i like what IJ said about clutchless shifting. it certainly works just fine...however, your gearbox may "like" it, but the driveline and motor mounts wont like it.
when i do it the clutchless downshift, the car lurches pretty hard.
also. doing 100mph in 5th and then successfully getting the transmission into 2nd w/ the clutch out is a recipe for disaster! ive seen a starion bellhousing explode because the clutch flew apart because the synchros actually let the kid get into 2nd gear. thats like 13,000rpms on the inputshaft with no pressure holding the clutch disc together... them rivits arent going to hold forever!
also, when i down shift, i dont skip gears. i move it thru the gears to spin up the gearsets even though i dont let up on the clutch. that way, the input shaft rpm doesn thave to increase in speed so suddenly going from 5th at 80mph to 2nd in one motion.
also, i try to double clutch when my car is cold and have to get back into 1st when rolling. my car refuses to go back into 1st when im doing more than 2mph... so i double clutch, and try to swing it into 1st quickly.
when i do it the clutchless downshift, the car lurches pretty hard.
also. doing 100mph in 5th and then successfully getting the transmission into 2nd w/ the clutch out is a recipe for disaster! ive seen a starion bellhousing explode because the clutch flew apart because the synchros actually let the kid get into 2nd gear. thats like 13,000rpms on the inputshaft with no pressure holding the clutch disc together... them rivits arent going to hold forever!
also, when i down shift, i dont skip gears. i move it thru the gears to spin up the gearsets even though i dont let up on the clutch. that way, the input shaft rpm doesn thave to increase in speed so suddenly going from 5th at 80mph to 2nd in one motion.
also, i try to double clutch when my car is cold and have to get back into 1st when rolling. my car refuses to go back into 1st when im doing more than 2mph... so i double clutch, and try to swing it into 1st quickly.
I "double-clutch" most every downshift. When I re-engage the clutch I just let it go fast and the majority of the time the engagement is perfectly smooth. Now, I have been driving my V6 mustang since my Supra is not driving. I double clutch up-shifts aon my Mustang often, they have shitty transmissions. Back when my Supra ran I never need the clutch for downshifts. Clutch-less downshifts elminate the third pedal when braking and allow you to have one foot on the brake and one on the gas.
You guys need to make sure you clarify "rev-matching" when trying to explain it. I see a lot of guys keeping the clutch disengaged through the entire downshift while rev-matching. Sure you get smooth and fast engagement but you do not benefit from being able to engage the gear faster as you would with double clutching.
The way I see it, you can only shift as quick as your engine can accel or decel. Quick shifts under acceleration or deceleration put excessive strain on everything and will likely break the tires loose so you must wait for the engine to reach the right RPM. Hence the reason in games such as Gran Turismo you cannot "powershift" and a lightweight flywheel lets you shift faster.
That said, the average person will not shift like that. The average person seems to put a lot of slip on the clutch in all scenarios. I will have to disagree with a lot of people. Downshifting through gears coming up to stops only slipping the clutch slowly will significantly reduce the life of the clutch along with the synchros.
Oh, and IJ. I was a forklift mechanic for a while. I have driven many transmissions without synchros, so not just old guys like you have experience with them.
You guys need to make sure you clarify "rev-matching" when trying to explain it. I see a lot of guys keeping the clutch disengaged through the entire downshift while rev-matching. Sure you get smooth and fast engagement but you do not benefit from being able to engage the gear faster as you would with double clutching.
The way I see it, you can only shift as quick as your engine can accel or decel. Quick shifts under acceleration or deceleration put excessive strain on everything and will likely break the tires loose so you must wait for the engine to reach the right RPM. Hence the reason in games such as Gran Turismo you cannot "powershift" and a lightweight flywheel lets you shift faster.
That said, the average person will not shift like that. The average person seems to put a lot of slip on the clutch in all scenarios. I will have to disagree with a lot of people. Downshifting through gears coming up to stops only slipping the clutch slowly will significantly reduce the life of the clutch along with the synchros.
Oh, and IJ. I was a forklift mechanic for a while. I have driven many transmissions without synchros, so not just old guys like you have experience with them.
When you become proficient at rev matching with a synchro trans (every modern trans) you don't even need to use the clutch.
I've even learned to down shift without the clutch, but you gotta hit it perfect.
Practice...Practice.
I've even learned to down shift without the clutch, but you gotta hit it perfect.
Practice...Practice.
clutch is cheaper and easier to repair, emm kay?
The clutch is a wear item people, just like brakes. Get used to it.
I can't heel-toe in the supra, the gas pedal is too far away to do it easily, so I just let the clutch out slowly, or do the right thing and downshift before the corner using engine braking to help slow me down and allow the nice torque monster CT26 spool up and launch me out of the corner.
I hurt my left knee pretty badly one time and yes, it's quite easy to slip it into gear to upshift, and to slow down I just threw it in neutral and used the brakes.
shaeff: Solid front axle? My 82 toyota on 31's would hammer a corner, lift the inside tire and scrub off speed because of the open diff and feel like it was leaned over about 45 degrees. Scary as hell to my friends, but the damn axle is so heavy it won't let it flip LOL
The clutch is a wear item people, just like brakes. Get used to it.
I can't heel-toe in the supra, the gas pedal is too far away to do it easily, so I just let the clutch out slowly, or do the right thing and downshift before the corner using engine braking to help slow me down and allow the nice torque monster CT26 spool up and launch me out of the corner.
I hurt my left knee pretty badly one time and yes, it's quite easy to slip it into gear to upshift, and to slow down I just threw it in neutral and used the brakes.
shaeff: Solid front axle? My 82 toyota on 31's would hammer a corner, lift the inside tire and scrub off speed because of the open diff and feel like it was leaned over about 45 degrees. Scary as hell to my friends, but the damn axle is so heavy it won't let it flip LOL