I found a MKIII I'm going to ask about buying...but...

[Figit090]

I wanted to ask some things here first...

I was kindly given an autocheck on the vehicle, and here's what I'm given for it's record....leading me to believe it's a single-owner car. Here is the very small (compared to my car) report, I omitted the city, and there is NO mileage record anywhere for this car;

03/02/1990 CA Independent Source VEHICLE MANUFACTURED AND SHIPPED TO DEALER
12/26/1996 CA Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE
08/18/2008 CA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
01/14/2009 CA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL

So...how does one explain the 6 YEAR gap from Manufacture to Title? (which I'm assuming someone purchased the car?)

My dad suggests that it may have been the car of choice for the dealer's take-home work ride, and was never sold until '96...anyone have a firm idea on what they think could explain the report? It was toyota's flagship car so I would not be surprised...

Anyway...pics or it didn't happen...so here's my car (1986.5 N/A) sitting next to this pretty prime looking 1990 Turbo Hard-top. It has AUG 2010 tags, so I'm uncertain of it's status, but I did notice cobwebs on the trim and front rims, along with rust spots on the front rotors.

I'm thinking it's been anywhere from 2 weeks to a month since it's moved significantly, and I've seen it parked in this one location consistently for over a year... I know the car most likely hasn't moved in over a week since I checked last. The consulting firm it's parked at is open by appointment only, and I cannot tell if the car is affiliated in any way with the firm...but its a start.

I'm probably going to email the firm sometime soon and ask if the car would be for sale anytime in the future, or even currently...anyone have tips on good wordings for that? Thing is, I don't have money for buying a car at the moment, but I figured it's worth asking, and if an opportunity was hit, I would sell my current supra. Hell the engine could be blown, or BHG, I'm just itching to know why it's not being driven! (NOT garaged either!)

Excuse the little dots...I suppose I must have clicked a few extra spots when editing on Photobucket...:biglaugh:

Only problems I see are clearcoat coming off of the custom-painted hood (center hump is painted blue), and the missing bottom lip piece. Other than that...it's straight and clean.

 

[te72]

Your dad could be correct, or it could be a car held by the dealer as being 'not for sale'. I know of a 1990 Miata Special Edition (BRG paint, hardtop, a few other year exclusive options) that was at a Mazda dealer in Mesa, AZ, that was an example of this. Thing was immaculately clean and only had like 1200 something miles on it if I'm remembering correctly. I believe this particular example was a car the guy who owned that chain of dealers owned...

 

[Figit090]

Your dad could be correct, or it could be a car held by the dealer as being 'not for sale'. I know of a 1990 Miata Special Edition (BRG paint, hardtop, a few other year exclusive options) that was at a Mazda dealer in Mesa, AZ, that was an example of this. Thing was immaculately clean and only had like 1200 something miles on it if I'm remembering correctly. I believe this particular example was a car the guy who owned that chain of dealers owned...

Oh that's cool... Kinda odd though, do you know why he held it? Was it just sitting in the dealer looking pretty to help make sales on other cars?

 

[te72]

Hard to say without knowing the owner really. There's an old FJ60 Land Cruiser at the local Toyota dealer that has either been restored, or never seen the outside of a building, it's also immaculate. Nice truck. I remember that at Tony Divino Toyota (I believe in Provo, Utah if I'm not mistaken), they have a 2nd gen Celica hatchback that's also in great condition, has like 40k on the odometer. My personal theory? I think that some owners of car dealerships really are true 'car' guys and like to have historical vehicles in their show rooms just for fun.

A few quick things I noticed about this particular car:

-Antenna missing? I see the one mounted on the rear side window, but is that just a hole where the stock power antenna goes?
-Trim on rear window looks a *little* broken up to me? Not a huge deal, but it's probably seen the elements on occasion.
-Cell (built into the car) phone off the right side of the center cluster area? Don't see those very often...
-4x4 stance. Not a bad thing, just means it's stock.
-Hardtop. This... I like this. I miss my 88 hardtop.
-Steering wheel. March of 1990 and that steering wheel would suggest to me that it's a 91, although I could be mistaken.

If I were you, I'd check the inside of the car out. Is the interior in good shape? Some things to check for are the dash (cracks?), seats (tears, cig burns?), rear interior (cracks in the plastics, screws or panels missing?), and the spare tire area (any rust?). If the interior looks as good as the exterior, try to set up a test drive. How's the mileage? If it's under 125k, being a hard top, and if the interior is in good shape, I would suggest that this car should be VERY quiet driving. You could be doing 120+ in my 88 and not even realize it it was so quiet and smooth. Also might be a good idea to check the rear wheel wells. If there's chunks of black all over the underside of the wheel wells, there's a good chance the car saw a few burnouts. Ask me how I know haha... Got any more info on the car? If the autocheck doesn't have a mileage report, that would be a flag to me. If everything checks out, I personally would strongly consider buying it. I kick myself every day for selling my extremely clean 88 (faded bumpers were the worst issue) and buying this somewhat trashed 89 that I have now, even if it is a better performer. At least in my opinion, clean > fast.

 

[ret]

Oh that's cool... Kinda odd though, do you know why he held it? Was it just sitting in the dealer looking pretty to help make sales on other cars?

My personal theory? I think that some owners of car dealerships really are true 'car' guys and like to have historical vehicles in their show rooms just for fun.

I would lean towards either one. It'd be like Ford bringing in an old mustang and parking it next to the newer models - showing off the quality that the new model originated from and how the quality either hasn't decreased or how it's improved, or it could just be that the owner of that particular dealership likes his old mustang and wants to show off his restoration piece for all to see.

As for the Supra, exterior looks great, but I'd definitely take the above advice and check out the interior. Make sure to check out the spare tire - both of my Supras have attracted a lot of moisture there and the first one had some pretty nasty rust. Also, if you get it, sell me the spoiler. :biglaugh:

 

[Figit090]

A few quick things I noticed about this particular car:

-Antenna missing? I see the one mounted on the rear side window, but is that just a hole where the stock power antenna goes?
-Trim on rear window looks a *little* broken up to me? Not a huge deal, but it's probably seen the elements on occasion.
-Cell (built into the car) phone off the right side of the center cluster area? Don't see those very often...
-4x4 stance. Not a bad thing, just means it's stock.
-Hardtop. This... I like this. I miss my 88 hardtop.
-Steering wheel. March of 1990 and that steering wheel would suggest to me that it's a 91, although I could be mistaken.

UPDATE!

Today I crused by again and the owner was finally there! So as I was waiting for him to get off the phone I took a closer look, confirmed it's been repainted. Eventually as I was leaving the owner noticed me, came out, and said hi. We talked and here's what I know about the car...I'm a little unsure how much I want this particular one now.

It's ONLY got about 85,000 (mostly highway) miles on it, it's a one-owner car that he indeed purchased in late 90 or 1991 (I have no idea about the 1996 title in the autocheck!) Oddly he has had the clutch replaced one or two times, he said he had some issues with it...I guess it was "gittery" I dunno...

Real bummer though....He had a minor accident with it, hitting an abutment at low speed, no frame damage he states, but still...its a wreck in my mind.
He had a bodyshop repair it, and they installed a new front right fender and the nose, and repainted including custom blue paint with surrounding pinstripes on the hood bulge. He said they will redo the fading paint under warrany too...so it would probably look new from the door jams forward once work is done./.

IT HAS the underbody covers up front! I was shocked to see that. It has had it's headgasket replaced 20k mi ago, but of course this guy probably isn't aware of the issue with incorrect torque specs, so I'm guessing it will just blow again.... :-/

Rear hatch was broken and then replaced, so the glass is new, but the trim seals are on their way out...still looks fine but some is beginning to rip...and up top (as most probably know) the clasps will never be the same once removed...and they don't quite touch the glass anymore.

Soooo he said he IS looking to sell it, he was planning on getting it refinished up front under the lifetime warranty, and detailed before sale. He said to "do whatever research" and come back if I'm still interested. I don't know...its a great car, but I don't like the fact it's been in a (minor) accident, and that it's gone through repaints. I think I can do better.... and I have no idea what he'd want for it, even though he said he wasn't looking to get much, I figure it would be...I dunno...4 grand? I don't want to scam the guy....honestly though i dunno what prices are like right now.

As for those things mentioned te72;

Antenna - probably for the cellular phone you mentioned in your third point. The radio antenna is intact and there's a hole in the spoiler to let it up through, with the grommets and seals on the main body of the car. I'm guessing that is the stock design.

Haha...the cell was probably installed and stayed there since new...again, one owner car!

It is stock except the sawblades aren't on the car, he has them though.

It's a 1990 by the vin report and confirmed by the owner.

Interior is very good, almost perfect except for some minor blemishes to the hatch carpet.
Only rust on the exterior was minor surface rust on suspension components, and on the two hooks up front. Issue? I dunno...

Question...there are at least 4 speakers in back, the hatch speakers like in my 86.5, but then it has two small ones further forward next to the rear seats near the seatbacks... premium sound system?? They'd be next to your shoulders if you sat back there.

Soo yeah...this one's back on hold...sounds promising but I'm not quite feelin' it after knowing it's had bodywork done. My current car was in a bad accident and I want one that hasn't been beaten...at all.

 

[te72]

I say take it for a ride. Windows up, radio off, and go... get it on the highway if you can, see how it behaves and how it sounds. My car got t-boned, and there is a LOT of wind noise unfortunately. That would be my personal #1 if I were looking at a new Mk3. If you can arrange a test drive, see how it drives, does it wander, or is the alignment good? Where was the accident repaired at? There are a couple body shops around here that I would actually trust to get things right no matter what happened, but their prices reflect this.

As for your speaker question, the 89+ had 6 speakers stock. Those you mentioned are 3.5".

So, if all checks out on the test drive, and it is indeed a SOLID car (remember, these things were damn near sound proof when new), I'd offer him $3k as a starting point. Seems fair, given the accident history and all. Sounds like the steering and suspension bits on the right side may be a bit messed up, that would also be worth checking out, for abnormalities. That said, $3k would be a fair price in my book, although considering the mileage, he may be looking more toward 4k.

For what it's worth, although this is kinda unrelated, an old friend of mine picked up an 87 RX7 TII (turbo, 5 speed) that was in AWESOME condition (rebuilt damn near everything and had documentation, was a nice solid car) for $3500, and this was about 5 years back... Sometimes you just find a good deal, you know? I know I did with my first Supra...

 

[Figit090]

That sounds like a good idea. I'm hoping later on he gets a price in mind after researching...then maybe I can tell whether or not I want to even bother thinking about it. He DID say if I was serious, he'd photocopy my driver's license and let me take it for a spin. Tires are really low on air though so until he gets going on it...I think I'm going to just wait.

I didn't know our cars were so quiet! The interior definitely FEELS like it should be, but mine is not. I'm guessing that's because it's been wrecked..

Is underbody surface rust on suspension and everything a big deal? That was one big drawback in my mind, my 86.5 with 120,xxx miles on it has a nicer looking rear end. I only glanced but I hate seeing any sort of rust, and up front on the tow hooks, the rust was ugly....but possibly isolated to just those hooks given their exposed placement and maybe they were beat up in the wreck/repair.

Would it be fair to tell him about websites like this when he's considering prices? Doubt that would come up, but if it did...I mean I lots of help on here, and he's a nice guy.

Thanks for your thoughts te72. I think if this car stayed at or under 3k I'd have to consider it, but otherwise I think I can find an even cleaner example maybe down south (away from year-round rain) if I wait. Like you said awesome deals do come along, your example is a great one, that would be an epic find! Also, I saw one person on here get a turbo 1JZ supra that was a nice one just sitting.... THAT would be ideal. I really don't want the BHG headaches anymore if I can help it. That alone would be worth extra money.

 

[te72]

Well, good luck, keep us posted whatever you decide. If nothing else, it might be a good idea to let him know about SM. As for your surface rust question, I would kinda have to see what you're talking about to really be able to give a good argument either way. I mean, brake rotors rust really easily if the car sits for a couple days during rainy weather, but the extent of that can be extremely minimal. Maybe it just needs driven, you know?

And for the quiet thing I mentioned, I think part of that also has to do with the exhaust being modified. Being in an accident could allow things like your doors to become slightly misaligned, allowing air to get in (whistles, roars, etc...) or to just flow funny around the body... I just know my 88 was like riding in my brother's 2000 Cadillac, both of which had stock exhausts and lots of sound deadening from the factory.

 

[ret]

Sometimes you just find a good deal, you know? I know I did with my first Supra...

Like you said awesome deals do come along, your example is a great one, that would be an epic find! Also, I saw one person on here get a turbo 1JZ supra that was a nice one just sitting.... THAT would be ideal. I really don't want the BHG headaches anymore if I can help it. That alone would be worth extra money.

You guys suck. I got shafted with hidden problems on both of my Supras.

That is one thing to look out for though, are just little things that'll end up pissing you off later. I don't know how many other people suffer from it, but in both of my Supras the wire from the starter relay to the starter went bad, and in certain conditions (like when I was stuck somewhere and no help was available), the car wouldn't start. Jump starting it would usually push enough current through to resolve the problem, but there's been times where it's not enough. Unfortunately, there's not really a test you can do to check if the car is doing this. At least, not that I'm aware of.

Anyone else heard of this happening? I know there's one other Supra in town that this has happened to, but I'm not sure that I've heard much about it from anyone else.

 

[RazoE]

yup, starting issue happened on my 86.5. Had my friend perform the 12v relay mod on it, hasn't had a single issue since..!

 

[ret]

Wouldn't happen to have a link to that would you? I tried running a search and it didn't really get me anywhere.

 

[Figit090]

Thanks, yeah I'll be sure to update on my decision. It will probably be a while before anything develops, I'd like to see what the owner wants to do. Perhaps if it sits longer I can go throw him an offer...maybe ask to see under the hood and such. I would be tempted to offer 2k, and go up from there...not knowing the extent of the damage. Sounds minor though... I'll just have to think about it. I'd like to go down south away from rainy weather and find a car without rust potential however...

You guys suck. I got shafted with hidden problems on both of my Supras.

That is one thing to look out for though, are just little things that'll end up pissing you off later. I don't know how many other people suffer from it, but in both of my Supras the wire from the starter relay to the starter went bad, and in certain conditions (like when I was stuck somewhere and no help was available), the car wouldn't start. Jump starting it would usually push enough current through to resolve the problem, but there's been times where it's not enough. Unfortunately, there's not really a test you can do to check if the car is doing this. At least, not that I'm aware of.

Anyone else heard of this happening? I know there's one other Supra in town that this has happened to, but I'm not sure that I've heard much about it from anyone else.

Suck? no.

My supra had a substantial accident that was not reported. parts of the car have folds that were bent and then straightened in places there should not be damage..for example the bump in the frame just under the rear seats...bent. My car also had a hidden blown headgasket...found that with cooling system flush. Not to mention little surprises here and there like leaks and rusty spots. Its the suck man...we hear ya.

You're not really unlucky, we just both found old cars that happen to have a lot of potential for hidden issues. Comes with the territory of a sports car...hence my reluctance to even think about a 'wrecked' car. At least he's honest though...this car still seems like a diamond in the rough despite it's drawbacks...it's probably just fine. I'll keep thinking on it.

Be careful with whatever relay mod that is, I remember one mod that sounded nice but wasn't really a good idea. I think it was the starting issue... bypassing something designed to be in the system... shouldn't be done. Just a warning, do your research.

I have a starting issues on my 86.5, rarely. I just keep clicking the key over until something works....might be a failing relay, not sure. Doesn't really bother me too much....as it only happens once a month on average.


What do you all think about the head gasket issue? It has been replaced but I have no idea whether someone knew to torque down to 70ft/lbs or so... Thus...can I back things off and re-torque? Or do I have pop the head and replace the gasket anyway (in which case I'd probably invest in a MHG so I'd never deal with that crap again...)

 

[te72]

Suck? Hey, I only got lucky once, but I bought that car with a blown radiator (guess what happens when the idiot previous owner only puts WATER in the thing, no coolant, and it gets down to -30?), and a BHG. I just had to work on it a bit, but it was certainly clean. Life lesson for ya? Don't sell a clean Supra to buy a fast one. I did that with my 88 to get my 89, and have pretty much regretted it ever since...

Oh, and Figit, please don't assume that just because you put an MHG on the thing it'll never blow again. I did that, and either my head wasn't prepped to a high enough standard, or something went very very wrong, but it was pretty rough when we pulled it all apart after the rods started knocking...

 

[ret]

You're not really unlucky, we just both found old cars that happen to have a lot of potential for hidden issues. Comes with the territory of a sports car...hence my reluctance to even think about a 'wrecked' car. At least he's honest though...this car still seems like a diamond in the rough despite it's drawbacks...it's probably just fine. I'll keep thinking on it.

Be careful with whatever relay mod that is, I remember one mod that sounded nice but wasn't really a good idea. I think it was the starting issue... bypassing something designed to be in the system... shouldn't be done. Just a warning, do your research.

I have a starting issues on my 86.5, rarely. I just keep clicking the key over until something works....might be a failing relay, not sure. Doesn't really bother me too much....as it only happens once a month on average.

Haha, that's just the start of my car's problems. It's no one's fault but my own for rushing into it, but my first Supra was declared totaled last August and I had been driving a cable clutch with a bad cable for 3 months so I was just ready for something new.

To the relay mod, I found it and looked through it briefly. I have it bookmarked at home, but I'm at work now. What I ended up doing with my old Supra was putting in a starter button that I believe bypassed the relay completely. This mod, from what I remember, adds a new relay in place of the initial one, or in addition to, I don't remember right off. But yeah, I don't plan on half-assing anything. Unfortunately, my car only starts when it's in my driveway for the most part. I don't trust it enough to take it anywhere that requires me cut it off for any amount of time for fear of being stuck there.

Suck? Hey, I only got lucky once, but I bought that car with a blown radiator (guess what happens when the idiot previous owner only puts WATER in the thing, no coolant, and it gets down to -30?), and a BHG. I just had to work on it a bit, but it was certainly clean. Life lesson for ya? Don't sell a clean Supra to buy a fast one. I did that with my 88 to get my 89, and have pretty much regretted it ever since...

Yeah, buying my Supras have definitely taught me some valuable lessons. Unfortunately they didn't come easy or cheap. Next time I need to buy a car I'm certainly going to be more thorough. Part of my involvement in this thread reflects that I suppose. :icon_razz

Edit: Found the relay mod, http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...IS-(30-Amp-Starter-Relay-Mod)&highlight=relay

 

[Hachigo87]

Seems like it all will come down to a test drive to figure the decency of the repair work. I'd also try and see if you can look around and see any exsisting damage as a result of the old accident, like what you found on your 86.5.. Noone likes a wrecked car, but if it's done right it should be pretty close to original, though never the same.

If it were me, it ran and drove decently and the damage underneath wasn't that severe I'd shoot for somewhere in the 2's and work my way up. An original owner turbo isn't the easiest to find, and besides a prior accident the little quirks with it you mentioned seem pretty minor to be honest. Just curious, is it an auto or 5spd car?

 

[bombinuass]

the gap... when you buy a vehicle you dont get a title till you pay it off.... maybe he didnt pay it completly off till 96...

 

[Figit090]

First let me say, sorry for the time gap in this thread. Life got in the way and I wasn't in any hurry to come to a conclusion on this car once I realised the owner isn't really any more motivated than he was before talking to me...most likely.

Well today I stopped by AGAIN to see if it had moved. Nope. Surprise surprise. He's got a nice BMW why would he want to drive the supra? meh. Well anyway, it's covered in cobwebs and bird crap.

Taking a look under I see leaking fluids on the transmission and possibly the oil pan. I don't like the looks of leaks...it's only got 80k on it, mine has 125k...mine doesn't leak. Probably because it's been sitting...but still, replacing bunches of seals doesn't sound fun.:nono:

Suck? Hey, I only got lucky once, but I bought that car with a blown radiator (guess what happens when the idiot previous owner only puts WATER in the thing, no coolant, and it gets down to -30?), and a BHG. I just had to work on it a bit, but it was certainly clean. Life lesson for ya? Don't sell a clean Supra to buy a fast one. I did that with my 88 to get my 89, and have pretty much regretted it ever since...

Oh, and Figit, please don't assume that just because you put an MHG on the thing it'll never blow again. I did that, and either my head wasn't prepped to a high enough standard, or something went very very wrong, but it was pretty rough when we pulled it all apart after the rods started knocking...

Good info to know, thanks! You're right, I want a faster car but the turbo probably won't be THAT much faster, considering it might need mechanical refreshing....among other things.

Haha, that's just the start of my car's problems. It's no one's fault but my own for rushing into it, but my first Supra was declared totaled last August and I had been driving a cable clutch with a bad cable for 3 months so I was just ready for something new.

Yeah, buying my Supras have definitely taught me some valuable lessons. Unfortunately they didn't come easy or cheap. Next time I need to buy a car I'm certainly going to be more thorough. Part of my involvement in this thread reflects that I suppose. :icon_razz

Ah, well I hope you get things worked out, the supra is a nice daily when it's working right. Definitely is a good 'teacher' car though...ahaha...

Seems like it all will come down to a test drive to figure the decency of the repair work. I'd also try and see if you can look around and see any exsisting damage as a result of the old accident, like what you found on your 86.5.. Noone likes a wrecked car, but if it's done right it should be pretty close to original, though never the same.

If it were me, it ran and drove decently and the damage underneath wasn't that severe I'd shoot for somewhere in the 2's and work my way up. An original owner turbo isn't the easiest to find, and besides a prior accident the little quirks with it you mentioned seem pretty minor to be honest. Just curious, is it an auto or 5spd car?

the gap... when you buy a vehicle you dont get a title till you pay it off.... maybe he didnt pay it completly off till 96...

OH...makes sense.. Thanks!


Today I looked and there is sealant between the front fender and the lower piece that makes up the mudflap and such, suggesting to me the bodyshop didn't cut corners. Looked comparable to the other side, so in other words the repair looks good. I'd have to look under the hood but now I'm not too concerned with that.

I am concerned about leaks and if the head gasket poses the need for a near future rebuild. It is a 5 speed car, with TEMS.

Anyway, here are shots of the undercarriage so you all can make your own conclusions, what do you think about the leakage, and surface rust? We live near the coast so it's not surprising to see this, but may I remind you...my car doesn't look half this bad. I just don't know how bad[/b] this really is...

To me...the front suspension components look nasty... I feel like I'd be happier waiting for a great condition southern California or car from further inland with no rust, and some other engine, 1jz, 2jz (woohoo!) or 1uz. I just don't like the common issues with the 7m, and I haven't heard too many complaints about those other engines. Maybe I'm just ill informed or unknowing about plaguing problems...but it seems like a valid statement to say there aren't too many.

Anyway....pics speak for themselves.... I'll be toying with resolution, sorry if loading slows;

 

[te72]

Not to start another M vs JZ vs whatever argument, but the M series had it's roots in the 1960's, much like Chevy and it's LT series v8's. Nice motors, run well if left well enough alone, but what followed them was generally considered an upgrade (the LS series v8). I feel the same way about the JZ and UZ motors.

 

[duffer26]

what i see in those photos is nothing i would even give a second look to as far as rust is concerned and the leaks seem minamal for the time being