And that is what it really comes down too. Those that want an alternative energy source sometimes don't think about it. The earth has lots of oil, and it is easy to harvest.
Huge oil reserve found in US gulf
- Thread starter Nick M
- Start date
I say let the military keep it all. That way when the rest of the world runs out of oil we can go own them and rule the world.
Adjuster said:
when computers first came out, they were the size of entire rooms and costed insane amounts of cash. also, they used extremely massive amounts of power.
But then there was demand.
businesses, companies and other wealthy organizations were able to purchase the new technology. this small popululation of buyers created enough demand to lower the price of computers enough so families could afford them.
after about 60 years of progress, we have computers smaller than hands.
Adjuster, this is just one example of how demand will lower prices and improve technoloogy. Note that when computers first came out, they were initially rejected, just like solar panels. Do some research on this; i bet you'll be happily surprised.
Our local "Flyers" Gas station just took down all of their solar panels for some reason. My friends dad is a represenative for BP Solar.
>6% of all US consumed oil comes from the middle east.
The rest of it comes from Canada, Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, South America and Europe.
The rest of it comes from Canada, Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, South America and Europe.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Hey, don't get me wrong, I think using solar power is great.
ANY one of you actually using it every day? (Besides me that is.)
I have it on one of my cars, and I have a panel, one of the "rejects" from when I worked for ARCO solar that I'd like to build into the roof of my Supra eventually to keep the battery charged up, and power fans to keep the interior nice and cool, or at least at ambiant air temp by pulling fresh air through the car all the time.
My 98 A8 has the "solar sunroof" option. It was about 3000.00 when the car was new. Totally expensive, and no way that I'd pay that up front if I was buying the car new. (Which is why it's pretty rare actually.)
Why don't you see this kind of option from all car builders? No demand from the customers, especially at this price point.
You guys keep saying, but technology has improved, they have spray on panels, they have thin panels, they have this, or they have that... but yet I see NOTHING of this being used by builders, companies or better yet, everyday consumers of power.
Is that because the companies who have developed these products can't market them? Or because "big oil" is some how keeping them down? (Very unlikely since "big oil" actually is one of the larger producers of panels and silicon wafers used to make them.)
Again it falls back on demand. There is plenty of supply. Heck, our plant was running well under 1/2 production. ARCO built the plant expecting the demand to skyrocket, and they would also bring down the unit price as more were built. (Like anything that is produced, the first ones are expensive, and profits are very low for the company if there are any profits at all.) When demand never materialized, companies closed up shop, and moved what production there was offshore to cheaper labor markets like Mexico. (Where our plant was ultimately moved actually, but it was then replaced by even cheaper China produced panels.)
Do I have solar hot water on my current house? No way. It's too expensive compared to using natual gas to heat my water, and my house. (And that's the truth for everyone else too.)
Do you see the builders even putting the more expensive 90+ furnaces into new homes? Nope, they run the 80 something ones because they are cheap to buy, and the difference in cost v/s the heating costs don't pay off for many, many years.
I had a 90+ furnace in my last home. It was great, the heat and air intake pipes were actually plastic because over 90% of the heat from burning the natural gas was converted into heat that went into my house. My bills were very low, but the cost of that furnace v/s the cheaper 80% one I have now did not work out to a savings for the first builder/buyer of the home. I lived in that home for 3 years... Not nearly the time needed to pay off the thousand bucks or so it costs between the great furnace, and the pretty good one...
Same goes for water heaters.. They put the cheaper ones into homes because they are more cost effective.
Face it guys, hydrocarbons are everywhere in the solar system, and on our planet. They are NOT fossil fuels, but are produced by the earth, possibly from bio mass living at very deep and hot levels in the crust of our planet, or just a natural movement of hydrocarbons trapped up when the earth was formed from material in space going around our sun, I don't know, but I do know they are very plentiful, and we will not run out of them in thousands of years, possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of years. (Really, the last estimate I've heard was about half a million years of hydrocarbons on earth alone, and it's belived that hydrocarbons and even life at deep, hot levels in planets could be everywhere in the solar system, and elsewhere.)
You guys, science is just starting to understand that life is not just carbon based surface dwelling stuff, but is everywhere on this planet. We have only scratched the surface (excuse the pun) of life living in hot ocean vents, and in areas too cold to support human life.
Imagine tube worms that are over 600 years old living in water that is 600 degrees, and feeding on methane gas.. and at pressures we can't even comprehend... Science fiction? Nope, just deep water ocean vents here on earth...
Just a few years ago, science KNEW that the sea floors were dead, lifeless places where nothing could be found.
Guess what? They were very wrong! The deep oceans are alive with animals not only large, but that live to be very old in surface terms.
There are theories that say life is also living at great depths in the earth, and that the total bio mass of that life exceeds by a great deal the life that lives on the very thin outer crust of the planet.
Here is one to chew on..
If there are more termites on this planet than humans pound for pound, and termites are just one of millions of types of insects, imagine how much could be living just under our feet, a few miles down in the earth, living on methane, and other gases, perfectly happy to be very hot, and under intense pressure, and in quantities we as surface dwellers can't even imagine?
What if oil was nothing more than excrement from these deep dwelling creatures? (Makes much more sense than oil being "fossil fuels" especially since most of the oil now appears to be coming from depths far below the rocks that hold any fossil reccord... (Just look at how deep this current oil field is... and there are others in rock billions of years old, far older than "life" on the surface of this planet... )
Makes you think eh?
ANY one of you actually using it every day? (Besides me that is.)
I have it on one of my cars, and I have a panel, one of the "rejects" from when I worked for ARCO solar that I'd like to build into the roof of my Supra eventually to keep the battery charged up, and power fans to keep the interior nice and cool, or at least at ambiant air temp by pulling fresh air through the car all the time.
My 98 A8 has the "solar sunroof" option. It was about 3000.00 when the car was new. Totally expensive, and no way that I'd pay that up front if I was buying the car new. (Which is why it's pretty rare actually.)
Why don't you see this kind of option from all car builders? No demand from the customers, especially at this price point.
You guys keep saying, but technology has improved, they have spray on panels, they have thin panels, they have this, or they have that... but yet I see NOTHING of this being used by builders, companies or better yet, everyday consumers of power.
Is that because the companies who have developed these products can't market them? Or because "big oil" is some how keeping them down? (Very unlikely since "big oil" actually is one of the larger producers of panels and silicon wafers used to make them.)
Again it falls back on demand. There is plenty of supply. Heck, our plant was running well under 1/2 production. ARCO built the plant expecting the demand to skyrocket, and they would also bring down the unit price as more were built. (Like anything that is produced, the first ones are expensive, and profits are very low for the company if there are any profits at all.) When demand never materialized, companies closed up shop, and moved what production there was offshore to cheaper labor markets like Mexico. (Where our plant was ultimately moved actually, but it was then replaced by even cheaper China produced panels.)
Do I have solar hot water on my current house? No way. It's too expensive compared to using natual gas to heat my water, and my house. (And that's the truth for everyone else too.)
Do you see the builders even putting the more expensive 90+ furnaces into new homes? Nope, they run the 80 something ones because they are cheap to buy, and the difference in cost v/s the heating costs don't pay off for many, many years.
I had a 90+ furnace in my last home. It was great, the heat and air intake pipes were actually plastic because over 90% of the heat from burning the natural gas was converted into heat that went into my house. My bills were very low, but the cost of that furnace v/s the cheaper 80% one I have now did not work out to a savings for the first builder/buyer of the home. I lived in that home for 3 years... Not nearly the time needed to pay off the thousand bucks or so it costs between the great furnace, and the pretty good one...
Same goes for water heaters.. They put the cheaper ones into homes because they are more cost effective.
Face it guys, hydrocarbons are everywhere in the solar system, and on our planet. They are NOT fossil fuels, but are produced by the earth, possibly from bio mass living at very deep and hot levels in the crust of our planet, or just a natural movement of hydrocarbons trapped up when the earth was formed from material in space going around our sun, I don't know, but I do know they are very plentiful, and we will not run out of them in thousands of years, possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of years. (Really, the last estimate I've heard was about half a million years of hydrocarbons on earth alone, and it's belived that hydrocarbons and even life at deep, hot levels in planets could be everywhere in the solar system, and elsewhere.)
You guys, science is just starting to understand that life is not just carbon based surface dwelling stuff, but is everywhere on this planet. We have only scratched the surface (excuse the pun) of life living in hot ocean vents, and in areas too cold to support human life.
Imagine tube worms that are over 600 years old living in water that is 600 degrees, and feeding on methane gas.. and at pressures we can't even comprehend... Science fiction? Nope, just deep water ocean vents here on earth...
Just a few years ago, science KNEW that the sea floors were dead, lifeless places where nothing could be found.
Guess what? They were very wrong! The deep oceans are alive with animals not only large, but that live to be very old in surface terms.
There are theories that say life is also living at great depths in the earth, and that the total bio mass of that life exceeds by a great deal the life that lives on the very thin outer crust of the planet.
Here is one to chew on..
If there are more termites on this planet than humans pound for pound, and termites are just one of millions of types of insects, imagine how much could be living just under our feet, a few miles down in the earth, living on methane, and other gases, perfectly happy to be very hot, and under intense pressure, and in quantities we as surface dwellers can't even imagine?
What if oil was nothing more than excrement from these deep dwelling creatures? (Makes much more sense than oil being "fossil fuels" especially since most of the oil now appears to be coming from depths far below the rocks that hold any fossil reccord... (Just look at how deep this current oil field is... and there are others in rock billions of years old, far older than "life" on the surface of this planet... )
Makes you think eh?
I hope this will make gas prices drop below $2.50/gallon at least. I'd be happy if it dropped that low.
BTW, I paid $2.75/gallon the other day for 93 here in DFW, TX. Filled up with less than $40, I was very happy.
-Matt
BTW, I paid $2.75/gallon the other day for 93 here in DFW, TX. Filled up with less than $40, I was very happy.
-Matt
Once again, this has nothing to do with the fact that oil is plentiful and packs a large BTU wallop.bonus12 said:when computers first came out, they were the size of entire rooms and costed insane amounts of cash. also, they used extremely massive amounts of power.
But then there was demand.
businesses, companies and other wealthy organizations were able to purchase the new technology. this small popululation of buyers created enough demand to lower the price of computers enough so families could afford them.
after about 60 years of progress, we have computers smaller than hands.
Adjuster, this is just one example of how demand will lower prices and improve technoloogy. Note that when computers first came out, they were initially rejected, just like solar panels. Do some research on this; i bet you'll be happily surprised.
GotToyota? said:
but you see thats what the oil companies do. Have you ever noticed this trend, that prices rise dramatically and then slowly taper off for a little while. See that way you get used to paying.... say ...just over 3bucks a gallon. Then they drop the price just enough to take the public focus off of it. And now suddenly your happy to pay $2.80/gal, when this same time last year you were paying just over 2bucks....but remember back when it went over 2bucks..we all had the same reaction...then it slid a little...then we got used to it....
Last year Exxon recorded record profits....at our expence. But hey I guess thats great if you own Exxon Stock huh?
Kudos to the weezel, thats exactly how I feel, wtf?, now because its $2.80 they're doing us a favor, It was $1.75 not all that long ago and that was even after 9/11. Boooooooo on the big oil company gouging.
I did hear on the news a couple nights ago it could be down around $2.00 by thanksgiving, and that was nothing to do with the new find.
You left wing commies can dream on if you think the FBI is invetigating them with any regard to market prices. Don't like the price of gas, don't buy it.
Park your Supra and get a SOHC mid 90's Civic for economy.
Here is the problem with kids in diapers. You have noticed a trend common to all items with inflation. Gas was more in 1980 than it is now, adjusted for the years. You have the same reaction, not everybody else. Gas prices are what they are becuase you pay it.
Oil companies are making a lot of oil because they are selling a lot of oil. Not because the mark up has changed. If we nuke India and China, we can lower prices.
Park your Supra and get a SOHC mid 90's Civic for economy.
Here is the problem with kids in diapers. You have noticed a trend common to all items with inflation. Gas was more in 1980 than it is now, adjusted for the years. You have the same reaction, not everybody else. Gas prices are what they are becuase you pay it.
Oil companies are making a lot of oil because they are selling a lot of oil. Not because the mark up has changed. If we nuke India and China, we can lower prices.
bonus12 said:
He was close. 9% comes from Saudi, with no direct mention of other arab countries....
http://www.warmthoughts.com/ncpma/articles/where_in_world_article.html
On the charts, more than 50% of our oil is from NAFTA. I think the middle east is 20%.
When Iraq stabilizes, they have a shitload too. That will really drop crude prices. The city of Kirkuk has a field that is believed to hold 6% of the worlds entire supply. Al-Queada sabbotages it every chance they can to keep your gas prices high.
When Iraq stabilizes, they have a shitload too. That will really drop crude prices. The city of Kirkuk has a field that is believed to hold 6% of the worlds entire supply. Al-Queada sabbotages it every chance they can to keep your gas prices high.
Who knows what year was the peak for oil discoveries?
Who knows what % of total US consumption will be satisifed by this "huge" discovery?
Who knows how much oil was discovered versus consumed in 2004 (last year I have data for)?
Interesting questions... you may not like the answers.
Who knows what % of total US consumption will be satisifed by this "huge" discovery?
Who knows how much oil was discovered versus consumed in 2004 (last year I have data for)?
Interesting questions... you may not like the answers.
I do.3p141592654 said:
That is not known yet, as we do have a solid answer on the size, only an estimate. Like I said, the lefties will say it is no good, so don't do it.
I do. Do you know how much was pumped out of the ground in 2004?
Interesting questions... you may not like the answers.[/QUOTE]