How to tell if valve guides or seals are bad?

[Rennat]

UPDATE

I went out driving today with my friend cause i wanted to listen to and watch his car (his has some isues) and i wanted him to watch my exhaust for when it smokes... and what i discovered is that i only smoke on boost, or when im spooling the turbo. cause every time i 'took off' from him, he said there was he described as 'when you smoke a cigarete and you exhale the smoke, its like that' he said... and when we raced and i had the jump on him, he said that there was a good amount of smoke coming out.
AND
i never smoked on deceleration, and i never smoked while just cruising... but i do sometimes smoke a little on start up (and i always let my car cool off for at least 1minute)

/end update


Rebuilt engine, compression test yeilds 160psi. HKS HG re-torqued to 90 ft. lbs. I got a valve job on the head, and they replaced some of the valve guides but not all of them, all new viton stem seals also.

my question is how do i tell if they are 'bad'? me and my dad have been talking about it, and here are my 'symptoms'...

spark plugs 1-5 are 'oily' and black looking, and the tops of the pistons are shiny like they are wet with fresh oil!
BUT
plug 6 looks like a normal plug and the piston is not shiny looking on top...(my guess is because the majority of EGR gas goes into this cylinder)
i thought it was my turbo, but that doesnt explain the nasty ass spark plugs...

pcv lines are ran like oem with new hoses, new vacuum lines, im going to change the oil to regular 5w30 today, but i doubt thats going to help it any...

If you need anymore info, let me know.

 

[Angry7M]

Ok i had the same exact problem with my car, im almost completely sure you have the same problem as mine. The reason your seeing so much oil on top of you piston is because your spark plug well is filled with oil, so when ever you took the spark plug out the oil poured into the cylinder and wet the spark plug tip.

Read this link:

http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/mkiii-supra/7527-got-oil-top-your-spark-plugs.html

 

[Poodles]

plug 6 looks like a normal plug and the piston is not shiny looking on top...(my guess is because the majority of EGR gas goes into this cylinder)

The EGR is released right behind the throttle body, so that assumption is wrong.

More than likely it's leaking oil into the plug wells like previously stated. Nobody ever replaces the 3rd cam cover gasket...

 

[Angry7M]

Ok well im in the process of replacing those seals for the 4 bolts. I was thinking of reusing the 3rd cylinder cover and using some gasket maker??? Would this work??? Or what did you guys use to replace these gaskets? I wanna keep my 3rd cylinder cover.

 

[suprabad]

I agree the 3rd gasket (center) can be a leaky sob. I've seen cars with the spark plugs completely submerged in oil. I use O-rings on mine, works much better than silicone seal.

 

[MK3Brent]

You'll burn oil on startup and decel, in many cases.

 

[Rennat]

ROFL... i dont even have the '3rd gasket'... i undid the 3(or 4?) big ass center things though, and i put RTV on them, and torqued them down... thats NOT IT. and not to mention, i never said a word about oil on TOP of my spark plugs, i only said i had oil ON my spark plug, like the electrodes, inside... theres no oil anywhere in my spark plug valley.

and if it was my vavle cover, or something that i could easily see then i would just fix it. my problem's are somewhere else... i just hope there easily delt with...

Brent, i was buring during accel at low RPM and low Speed... so yeah.
(and for all i know i could be lightly smoking 24/7, i cant see the smoke)

 

[WhtMa71]

Like stated before, leaky seals are usually revealed upon startup and decel(when engine vacuum is at its highest). I can smell oil burning in my car when i come to a stop but i believe it is the turbo. Turbo engines will use a little oil. If its smoking blue on startup and then goes away after a few seconds it is usually the valve seals.

 

[Rennat]

im not much of a believer that 'because my engine is turbo, i use oil'... that honestly makes no sense. if everything is sealed up right, then you shouldnt burn oil... you might burn the vapors that are sucked out, but not the oil its self.

and i'll go and do some high vacuum pulls tomorrow after i get an oil filter that is gonna fit... haha. and i'll make sure i have somebody behind me watching.

 

[Zumtizzle]

So was i right?

Keep driving the car.

It's the oil giving you good compression.

It could very well be the total seals bud.

but! if i were you, i'd take some valve springs out and see whats what.

 

[Rennat]

i did that compression test cold. the car had sat all night... so it wasnt that.

if my rings didnt 'seal' then my compression defintaley wouldnt be at 160!

im gonna give a call to the machine shop that did my stuff and ask a few questions... cause i've never had this many issues with a rebuilt engine... its just nuts.

and zum, it could still very well be my turbo leaking oil out of my exhaust, but.... that just doesnt explain the oil inside on the spark plugs. but i did drain my oil last night (and it defintaley needed it too!!) and it had 6 quarts, so im not burning that much oil... which is good.

 

[suprastanger507mgte]

Ok well im in the process of replacing those seals for the 4 bolts. I was thinking of reusing the 3rd cylinder cover and using some gasket maker??? Would this work??? Or what did you guys use to replace these gaskets? I wanna keep my 3rd cylinder cover.

All that #3 cover does is prevent crap from falling into the spark plug area. The oil leaks from the actual valve covers. If your valve covers don't leak , then there will not be any oil around the plugs.
For rennats case, the plugs are oily inside the cylinder not the ceramic part. Maybe you should just break in the engine a bit more since you just recently rebuilt it. There is a write up somewhere on a proper breakin. this may allow for valves and rings etc to wear and start sealing properly.

 

[WhtMa71]

im not much of a believer that 'because my engine is turbo, i use oil'... that honestly makes no sense. if everything is sealed up right, then you shouldnt burn oil... you might burn the vapors that are sucked out, but not the oil its self.

Believe what you want, but pretty much every turbocharged motor burns a little oil. Its just the nature of the beast. Especially in older motors with older turbos. The actual oil seals in the turbo are not the kind of seal you would think about in the traditional sense.

 

[Rennat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_BQ1EeStaY

i took a video after i changed the oil.

i drove away and had my mom watch the car, and she said there was white smoke... BUT I CANT SEE IT IN MY MIRRORS!!! its pissing me of....

so i pulled into the garage, and made the video of me revving it and a walk around just so you get an understanding of my car...

I stuck a q-tip into my CC, and i wiped the top of the piston off, and it came up dirty, but it didnt wipe away the goldish brown layer on top of the piston... so im wondering if its normal for a fresh set of pistons to start to turn a tanish brownish color? i took some pics so you could see what color (there not the best but they'll do)


Edit: i just watched the video, and theres only smoke on one rev up?.... wtf? i'll post it anyways.
HOT compression test came back with a 150psi... but that was only on number one. so yeah...
#1 Top of piston... its a goldish tan/bronze color (its almost like its a clear coat of that stuff, cause it doesnt wipe away...?)

 

[Rennat]

update at the top... would like your suggestions, im probably just going to rebuild the turbo.

 

[Poodles]

All that #3 cover does is prevent crap from falling into the spark plug area. The oil leaks from the actual valve covers. If your valve covers don't leak , then there will not be any oil around the plugs.

Wrong wrong WRONG.

The 3rd cam cover gasket seals the oil galley plugs. If it's old and worn (likely) then they will leak FLOODING the plug wells.


Yes, pistons usually are gold in color after use. Your plug well is dry, good.

Pic of plugs? Hell, if all else fails it's pretty easy to find out if the valve stem seals are leaking if you pull the manifolds...

 

[Angry7M]

Wrong wrong WRONG.

The 3rd cam cover gasket seals the oil galley plugs. If it's old and worn (likely) then they will leak FLOODING the plug wells.

Thank You Sir

 

[Rennat]

what you mean is that the big ass allen head bolts seal those holes up... and if they are old and havent been checked, then, yes they will leak. but the actual 'gasket' metal thing juts keeps it all 'sealed' and from letting water in and other bad stuff...

im gonna drive it around some more. cause the car is SUPER strong... it keeps up with a cammed, 3'' exhaust, HUGE fmic, 550's, afpr... ect. and hes on 20psi right now, and he didnt start to get in front of me until 75ish... so its not like the car doesnt have any power. the dude who owns the car was pretty suprised.

 

[Bigdough666]

This is my car on decel

Bad valve seal (probably more than one) and the car runs hard as hell. Makes plenty of power and has run deep in the 12s. Just because its making power doesnt mean it doesnt have bad valve seals. Yours looks to be very, very slight, if any leakage. My car POURS out smoke. The car is full of smoke when I come to a stop.

 

[Poodles]

Rennat: no, the gasket is a metal core with a rubber coating. This rubber coating creates o-rings for the galley plugs and are what seal it.