How bad are my cylinder walls?

[kneedragger85]

I just got my engine back from the worst shop on the planet after almost 10 months for a simple new set of bearings, crower rods, new rings, and a rehone. The pictures do not look like a rehone was done to me and there is vertical scoring. It looks to me as though I'll need to overbore.

 

[LordLo]

I agree. You should get a overbore and rehone. Don't know why the machine shop didn't call you and ask you.

 

[DangoAZ]

What is THAT?

Get a new machine shop. Nobody should have returned a motor to you looking like that. Especially not after the 10 MONTHS of tender love and care they obviously put into it.

Scoring = not good. Let alone to mention the chunk down by the piston in that first picture. :3d_frown:

 

[northwestsupra]

get your money back point that crap out to them

 

[kneedragger85]

I found a stock 7M longblock locally and plan to bore it .020 over to keep my custom Wiseco pistons with ceramic tops and moly coated skirts and deck it for my MHG. I figure I'll bolt the back timing/coolant plate to the new block to take off the same material from the new block and use the same old head. Then, take the new timing/coolant plate and deck it to the same height to use as a potential for a future 0.040 over with the messed up block if need be for a stock rebuild or cressida/mkii swap. My engine was put together by a complete moron. There's no anti-seize on my ARP headstud threads, RTV under my head gasket by the timing plate, and oil between my head/block between the MHG. There will be consequences for all this, believe me. I haven't even plastigauged my bearing clearances yet. I just got a Mitutoyo digital micrometer to measure the clearances. I'm going to go ahead and assume they're junk especially since they went against my request of either clevites or acl and put king tri-metal bearings in my block.

 

[mad0314]

I think i woulda got my money and block back 9 months ago.

 

[Nick M]

I just got my engine back from the worst shop on the planet after almost 10 months for a simple new set of bearings, crower rods, new rings, and a rehone. The pictures do not look like a rehone was done to me and there is vertical scoring. It looks to me as though I'll need to overbore.

It doesn't look like a rehone was done because you obviously don't know what a rehone is. Your cylinders were honed. Albeit a lousy job, the angle is barely visible.

Why did you not have it bored out with the wear like it is? The vertical scratches are typical engine wear on high milage engines.

I wonder why it was there 10 months. What machine shop was this?

 

[hvyman]

You need the timing cover to be machined with the block.

 

[kneedragger85]

I think i woulda got my money and block back 9 months ago.

I went to the DA 5 months ago for theft of my engine since none of my parts were around (probably were hidden in the shop).

It doesn't look like a rehone was done because you obviously don't know what a rehone is. Your cylinders were honed. Albeit a lousy job, the angle is barely visible.

Why did you not have it bored out with the wear like it is? The vertical scratches are typical engine wear on high milage engines.

I wonder why it was there 10 months. What machine shop was this?

I see the crosshatching and figured it was the leftover hone because it's not that great of a job.

You need the timing cover to be machined with the block.

I am. I'm saying that I will put the old cover on the new block to get the same deck height to use with my old head to keep my 8.4:1 compression. Then put the new cover on either block and deck the cover to the same height as the block while writing down the height taken off for a later MHG sizing with the old block/new head. Cliffnotes: I will have two blocks with two cover all decked to the same height.

 

[Koenigturbo]

get your money back point that crap out to them

I very much doubt they admit that it's their fault, especially after ten months

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

Did they do a rehone because you told them to do it? Most good machine shops would measure it and then tell you what you need or what you can do, I blame the machine shop for not measureing the bore so that you don't waste your money, or they were smart by doing a rehone so, when your engine starts smoking they are hoping you'll bring it back so they can make more money from you.

 

[kneedragger85]

I very much doubt they admit that it's their fault, especially after ten months

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

Did they do a rehone because you told them to do it? Most good machine shops would measure it and then tell you what you need or what you can do, I blame the machine shop for not measureing the bore so that you don't waste your money, or they were smart by doing a rehone so, when your engine starts smoking they are hoping you'll bring it back so they can make more money from you.

This was just a "performance shop" or "specialty shop" that never took my parts to a machinist and put it together hoping I'd drop it in my car and it will fall apart so I'd bring it back to him for more money and time. I've found out he's had the same vehicles there for an average of 3 years for most of them.

 

[Nick M]

The almost horizontal cross hatch is not stock. Those are wear marks, the vertical lines. To have it worn like that, which isn't uncommon, the cylinder walls are usually a smooth finish with cross hatch barely visible. He honed over them, I am guessing at your request. Not to excuse a lousy job or 10 months. PM me the name of the machine shop. If you don't mind.

 

[grimreaper]

Yes post their name. Others will benefit from avoiding them.

A few weeks ago i took my block to a well known reputable machine shop a few miles away. The owner and I speced out my build and told them in detail what i wanted. he told me in detail what they used and how they did it. When i went to dropped the block off anther part owner was there and helped me unload. I started asking him the same questions (how do ya'll tq the rod bolts, do you plastigage the mains/rods for clearance? and other small things i knew the answer too) He said they have never needed to use a stretch gauge on the rods, plastigauge works just as good as the mic's and several other contradictions to the first guy. I drove down the block with a bad feeling and turned around and picked it back up. If you walk out of their shop with ANY doubt, keep looking..

The above mentioned shop has a "tech" guy thats been around for 30+ years. Initially i brought my head in for cleaning and was asking about using their precision straight edge. He told me to run some emery cloth over a straight edge from home depot to remove the nicks and it would be just as good. While he was talking he was sanding down their home depot straight edge and compared it to the precision one. the one from HD was bowed a few thousands in the middle and that conversation quickly ended LOL ( I should have stopped there!)

 

[suprarich]

Every 7m owner really needs to ask the forum for a reputable shop prior to dropping off the work. For the life of me I can not understand how there can be so many poor shops out there.

 

[hvyman]

I am. I'm saying that I will put the old cover on the new block to get the same deck height to use with my old head to keep my 8.4:1 compression. Then put the new cover on either block and deck the cover to the same height as the block while writing down the height taken off for a later MHG sizing with the old block/new head. Cliffnotes: I will have two blocks with two cover all decked to the same height.

You should only remove what you have to. Timing covers are cheap blocks are not. It doesnt cost anymore to get the timing cover machined with the block.

 

[grimreaper]

Every 7m owner really needs to ask the forum for a reputable shop prior to dropping off the work. For the life of me I can not understand how there can be so many poor shops out there.

I know i have in the past with out a lot of response other then to ship it out. Most guys that have had the missfortune of trying several shops that i know of, dont care for the forums. Being actively involved with your local supra community will be the biggest help. shipping to rich is NOT that bad actually. We estimated about 4-450 round trip shipping. Well worth it if you want to erase all doubt and do it once.

 

[metaphysico]

Actually the best shops I have found for machine work, both in price and quality are boat motor machine shops. Now that requires that you be near a large enough lake that you will have plenty of places to go. But if you think about what a boat motor goes through you can understand the quality they have to have in their work. I mean its nothing to run a boat motor a full throttle for an hour. I got my head milled and the block decked for $150 and that was the most smooth finish for a mhg I have ever seen. Also for another $75 they would knife edge, lighten, and balance the crankshaft. Titanium sleeves were $100 per cyl and that included the sleeves.

But as for your motor there is only so much they can hone away, they should have gotten to that point and called you and said they were gonna have to bore it over, but for someone that already has pistons for a specific size thats not gonna sound good. But there is always sleeving, $600 for a full set of titanium sleeves is not a bad deal.

 

[IJ.]

Actually the best shops I have found for machine work, both in price and quality are boat motor machine shops. Now that requires that you be near a large enough lake that you will have plenty of places to go. But if you think about what a boat motor goes through you can understand the quality they have to have in their work. I mean its nothing to run a boat motor a full throttle for an hour. I got my head milled and the block decked for $150 and that was the most smooth finish for a mhg I have ever seen. Also for another $75 they would knife edge, lighten, and balance the crankshaft. Titanium sleeves were $100 per cyl and that included the sleeves.

But as for your motor there is only so much they can hone away, they should have gotten to that point and called you and said they were gonna have to bore it over, but for someone that already has pistons for a specific size thats not gonna sound good. But there is always sleeving, $600 for a full set of titanium sleeves is not a bad deal.

Sounds like ill-informed Kiddie Dreamer bullshit to me......

 

[kneedragger85]

The place is Horsepower Research & Developement in Commerce City (Denver) Colorado and the scumbag is Don Walker. My review is here, http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?127686-Don-Walker-Horsepower-Research-amp-Developement-in-Denver-Colorado&p=1602451&posted=1#post1602451. My criminal case against him hit a brick wall and apparently he's danced the dance for over 3 years with 20+ victims. There will be a civil suit.

 

[easternguy2005]

Last build I had the machine shop hone the cylinders. I knew they would be over 83.24 (my notes say that none were greater than 84.60) which is NOT recommended. There wasn't any variation in the cylinder walls but there were definitely scratches like on yours. Put the same rings and pistons back in and it smoked some on acceleration. No piston slap or blowby at idle (compression HG shimmed to 8.0-1).

Just had to tear it out and for another build and replaced the rings for $65 just for the hell of it. You cylinder walls look like mine with some imperfections - My machinest wouldn't charge me because he would be embarrased to say this is something that HE produced !