Hot start problem

[silvergsx623]

:1zhelp:

I am confused to what the problem could be.

The supra doesn't want to start after its been driven for a long time. (everything is nice and toasty under the hood)

When i turn the key to start, I can hear a(what sounds like a relay on the passenger side kick panel area) click with each key turn. It is like no power is getting to the starter.

I let it sit for an hour the other day and it started up on the first turn. Very strange.

I have a brand new battery with new connectors. It starts fine in the morning or when it hasn't been driven in a few hours.

Anyone ever had this problem before?
Any ideas?:aigo:

Thanks

 

[Crypton2006]

Sounds like a alternator. Try pulling off your positive batteries cable while the car is running. If it dies its a good chance its that. Or you could go down to AutoZone and have the test it.

 

[Rennat]

what you could try, is keep clicking over to the "start" position on the key, and just do it like 15 times in a row...

if not, make sure all of your vac lines are hooked up and you have all of your VSV's under the intake manifold. one of them is for hot starting.

 

[jetjock]

Try pulling off your positive batteries cable while the car is running. If it dies its a good chance its that.

:3d_frown: I suggest you google the words "load dump" and educate yourself before giving such advice to people...

 

[silvergsx623]

Thanks for the ideas guys. I do not see how a bad alt would cause this problem. (bad battery would be different a case)

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/EPC/291420/catalog.aspx?F=1708&P=3

which VSV is used for hot starts?
25860 17650

You have any ideas Jetjock? I know your an electronics master.

 

[silvergsx623]

Thanks for the ideas guys. I do not see how a bad alt would cause this problem. (bad battery would be different a case)

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/EPC/291420/catalog.aspx?F=1708&P=3

which VSV is used for hot starts?
25860 17650

You have any ideas Jetjock? I know your an electronics master.

It is just like the time i left the starter wire off of the starter... lol

Just hear the tick of the relay?

On a side note, what type of voltage should i get on a meter if i go between the starter wire and the starter. (signal wire) (not B+ wire)

 

[jetjock]

The Fuel Pressure UP VSV behind the alternator is used for hot starts. A loss of rest pressure will also cause hot start problems. Your problem is no crank though, not a crank-no-start. It could be anything from a bad starter to a bad clutch or ignition switch. You'll just have to track it down. Voltage drop testing is by far the easiest and quickest way to do that. There's a relay you can add that will eliminate going through the effort but since I disagree with hacking the wiring and since it may not solve your problem you'll have to get the info from someone else. Based on what you wrote my guess would be bad starter contacts. Next time try smacking the starter while someone holds the key over.

The clicking you hear is the starter relay, circuit opening relay, or both. Because both operate whenever the key is held to start there's no good way of knowing which isn't working unless you open the kick panel and check.

Starter signal (terminal 50) to ground should be 12 volts with the key at start. That's not going to help much though because (assuming the problem is not the starter) the line needs to be loaded and a meter won't do that. Connect something like a headlamp to it in parallel with the meter. My Kikusui PLZ 600 Electronic Load makes quick work of such tests but I'm guessing you don't have one of those lying around...

 

[silvergsx623]

The Fuel Pressure UP VSV behind the alternator is used for hot starts. A loss of rest pressure will also cause hot start problems. Your problem is no crank though, not a crank-no-start. It could be anything from a bad starter to a bad clutch or ignition switch. You'll just have to track it down. Voltage drop testing is by far the easiest and quickest way to do that. There's a relay you can add that will eliminate going through the effort but since I disagree with hacking the wiring and since it may not solve your problem you'll have to get the info from someone else. Based on what you wrote my guess would be bad starter contacts. Next time try smacking the starter while someone holds the key over.

The clicking you hear is the starter relay, circuit opening relay, or both. Because both operate whenever the key is held to start there's no good way of knowing which isn't working unless you open the kick panel and check.

Starter signal (terminal 50) to ground should be 12 volts with the key at start. That's not going to help much though because (assuming the problem is not the starter) the line needs to be loaded and a meter won't do that. Connect something like a headlamp to it in parallel with the meter. My Kikusui PLZ 600 Electronic Load makes quick work of such tests but I'm guessing you don't have one of those lying around...

Thanks for the info!

Whats the fastest way of checking to see if i need a new starter or if i need a new relay?

Would it be possible to "add a relay via wire taps to make a temp. connection to bypass the starter circuit?

that would show or eliminate the starter as the problem, correct?

Thanks for the help

 

[CATarga]

The "clicky-clicky, no-starty", is usually the starter contacts. Will it sometimes start if you hold the key on?

If you don't have a second person to smack(actually more of a tap) the starter while you turn the key, you can still do it yourself. Just get a short piece of wood, a section of broom handle works well, place it near the end of the starter(engine side) and tap it a few times. If it fires up it is the starter, if it doesn't try hitting it a little harder and try it again. If you need new look here, http://4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml#OnlineOrdering,
I just pulled mine apart(during my engine rebuild) to make sure the contacts were good, and they looked identical to the ones for the the 3.0 and 22re, that I just rebuild for both of my trucks this Summer. The instructions for replacing the contacts will work for the Supra's starter.

 

[Crypton2006]

Wow i did not know so much damage could happen from pulling the cable. Thats for pointing that out JJ.

 

[4U2QUIK]

my car used to do this exact same thing. I never really figured out what the problem was. I just set up a relay that was wired directly to the ignition switch., and that was the end of it.

 

[CyFi6]

use a jumper wire between B+ and the starter signal terminal when its having a no start condition, if it starts right up you can be pretty confident something is weak in the signal wire.