hks ssqv bov bov flutter
- Thread starter queenskid926
- Start date
problem solved, change the vaccum line and cap off some vacuum ports that wasnt being used. actuall one cap broke so that couldve been the problem.
I'm also with Crisp and his opinion of the HKS valve. I am using the stock Vac line and the valve works flawlessly. As Crisp described the only surge you will ever hear on a properly working valve is after its big whoosh and the valve shuts (like if you rev it in your driveway and let off the throttle completely you do hear a pff pff pff AFTER the valve closes.
also I would recommend running the valve without the insert. I have no insert on mine and it sounds way better than the high pitched sound normally heard from an SSQV. I will try to get some video of it sometime.
also I would recommend running the valve without the insert. I have no insert on mine and it sounds way better than the high pitched sound normally heard from an SSQV. I will try to get some video of it sometime.
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supradjza80;1285733 said:
THATS FLUTTER!!! And it seems to be a trademark of the SSQV, I've read dozens of pages on people saying the same shit about them.
dumbo;1286028 said:
It is not flutter it is surge. The valve is no longer open when it does the pff pff pff. It does it almost imperceptibly, and only when the throttle is snapped shut (I have only heard it with the hood open free reving the car - can hear it through the apex filter). I am of the opinion surge like this has very little negative affect to the turbo. Surging under boost is completely different.
Flutter is when the valve is changing from open to closed rapidly and in my opinion is completely fine at low vaccuum/boost. However my SSQV does not do this.
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supradjza80;1286590 said:
pfff...pffff....pfff I would say thats the valve opening and closing. I also think it isn't really "bad" for the turbo since there no major load, when it happens with high load on the turbo thats a different story, but I'm sure its not good for it either haha, plus it sounds pretty silly. I also wouldn't mind getting the other peice for making it quitier.
dumbo;1286720 said:
No the valve is not open, I am standing there looking at it and the valve is completely shut during this time (hand in front of valve no air flow -surge). The valve opens and closes rapidly when fluttering.
Example of the noise my bov is making after fully opening for about 1.5 seconds and closing is shown in this video, however it is almost imperceptible on my car. -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYT7qMxDZqQ
- mine performs like the first, but after closing has a very faint sound like the second, only after a large blow off with no load after it closes. I may do it at other times but you cannot hear it do it at all if it does.
This is not what my car is doing and is fluttering -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g32A6oIwY5w
IIRC, its been a long time, mine fluttered, felt the air pulsating at the BOV.
I can't belive I put so little thought into the BOV:nono:
I can't belive I put so little thought into the BOV:nono:
This is actually an interesting thread. There could be a LOT of misinformation, and ill-functioning set-ups that could be remedied with a little insight into the distinctions between several symptoms or conditions which are all being referred to with a common term (such as "flutter" and "surge") and yet do not nearly capture the subtle mechanics of what is actually happening, and there are multiple issues and equally varied and specific solutions for them. I would caution that DIFFERENT VEHICLE SETUPS and conditions created within the plumbing (manifold, etc...) MAY ACTUALLY CAUSE certain "surge" and "flutter" behavior out of the BOV, which is EXACTLY what the BOV SHOULD BE DOING when the SIGNAL PRESSURE is TELLING IT to do those things! If your SIGNAL PRESSURE is a PULSE, then the BOV SHOULD FLUTTER! That's simply VALVE RESPONSE to the signal being sent. That DOESN'T MEAN the signal pressure is what you WANT the engine to be sending!!! THIS is often the item that should be addressed when a BOV is "acting funny", or undesirably. (am I rambling?) Do you have "pressure drop" points in your IC system?
...would make a good "sticky", but who would step up and clearly define these things? Who really understands and is able to lead us?:biglaugh:
(felt pretty philosophical there for a moment...
)
Those videos CLEARLY (imho) demonstrate "unfavorable" BOV-havior in the latter clips...:nono: HOWEVER, it is NOT necessarily the fault of the BOV in all casses... it COULD be a number of other factors.
I still stand by the fundamental principles that are at work here. Pressure. Generally expressed as BOOST or VACUUM (other terms available...) and how it is utilized from certain sources to provide the most "timely" and "accurate" pressure force signal on a specific "mechanism" (VALVE) to cause it to actuate relative this source signal, to produce a specific function, which is retention (compression maintained, or valve closed) or exhaustion (decompression, or valve open) with the objective being to effectuate one of these two states AND TRANSITION BETWEEN THEM in a controlled, predictable, consistent manner... with a HUGE BIAS toward accomplishing this function in as TIMELY (IMMEDIATE) and RESPONSIVE a manner as mechanically possible.
CHECK YOUR LINES
(short, good integrity with correct volume under both boost and vacuum, responsive)
CHECK YOUR SOURCE
(primary point at which desired pressure shift is available to most efficiently provide the valve with it's signal)
UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR VALVE SHOULD BE DOING
(OPEN or CLOSE with QUICK transition)
CONSIDER THE ACCURACY OF YOUR SIGNAL SOURCE
(if it pulses, the BOV valve could be responding in kind)
...gotta get my coffee... the pot is whistling. That's BOOST!
Turbo Coffee.:biglaugh:
NOTE: I don't have any background nor formal knowledge on these things AT ALL, but I've stared at my BOV and it's plumbing for hours over the years, and considered it's functional design intent, actual behavior, and ways to effectuate "KAIZEN" or "change/better" principle of incremental optimization, and found notable improvements that lead to great performance (my opinion) under various conditions. Then again, I'm working in a moderate 15-18psi max. range, and other contributors may come into play at higher pressures with which I have no experience.
-crisp
...would make a good "sticky", but who would step up and clearly define these things? Who really understands and is able to lead us?:biglaugh:
(felt pretty philosophical there for a moment...
)Those videos CLEARLY (imho) demonstrate "unfavorable" BOV-havior in the latter clips...:nono: HOWEVER, it is NOT necessarily the fault of the BOV in all casses... it COULD be a number of other factors.
I still stand by the fundamental principles that are at work here. Pressure. Generally expressed as BOOST or VACUUM (other terms available...) and how it is utilized from certain sources to provide the most "timely" and "accurate" pressure force signal on a specific "mechanism" (VALVE) to cause it to actuate relative this source signal, to produce a specific function, which is retention (compression maintained, or valve closed) or exhaustion (decompression, or valve open) with the objective being to effectuate one of these two states AND TRANSITION BETWEEN THEM in a controlled, predictable, consistent manner... with a HUGE BIAS toward accomplishing this function in as TIMELY (IMMEDIATE) and RESPONSIVE a manner as mechanically possible.
CHECK YOUR LINES
(short, good integrity with correct volume under both boost and vacuum, responsive)
CHECK YOUR SOURCE
(primary point at which desired pressure shift is available to most efficiently provide the valve with it's signal)
UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR VALVE SHOULD BE DOING
(OPEN or CLOSE with QUICK transition)
CONSIDER THE ACCURACY OF YOUR SIGNAL SOURCE
(if it pulses, the BOV valve could be responding in kind)
...gotta get my coffee... the pot is whistling. That's BOOST!
Turbo Coffee.:biglaugh:
NOTE: I don't have any background nor formal knowledge on these things AT ALL, but I've stared at my BOV and it's plumbing for hours over the years, and considered it's functional design intent, actual behavior, and ways to effectuate "KAIZEN" or "change/better" principle of incremental optimization, and found notable improvements that lead to great performance (my opinion) under various conditions. Then again, I'm working in a moderate 15-18psi max. range, and other contributors may come into play at higher pressures with which I have no experience.
-crisp
^^^ I do agree that both the videos I posted show undesirable BOV characteristics. While flutter sounds stupid, and as you said, the valve is either receiving a pulsing signal or not working properly causing it to act this way, I do not believe the turbo is in surge during this so it is really not harming the turbo in any way.
In the second video, 2nd valve, the valve is definitely not performing correctly and in turn causes a much different sound which is the turbo surging (could be a multitude of issues). The surging of this valve is much worse than that of the flutter from the first (for the turbo). I would not recommend running a bov that caused surged like that all of the time as that will definitely have an effect on the turbos life.
For an example of the real damaging type of surge (on power surge - which has nothing to do with the bov but instead is dependant on the turbo's compressor map) here is a good video showing the distinct sound of surge.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Real-Compressor-Surge_163406.htm
you can hear when the bov opens and how it is a distinctly different sound from the surge.
In the second video, 2nd valve, the valve is definitely not performing correctly and in turn causes a much different sound which is the turbo surging (could be a multitude of issues). The surging of this valve is much worse than that of the flutter from the first (for the turbo). I would not recommend running a bov that caused surged like that all of the time as that will definitely have an effect on the turbos life.
For an example of the real damaging type of surge (on power surge - which has nothing to do with the bov but instead is dependant on the turbo's compressor map) here is a good video showing the distinct sound of surge.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Real-Compressor-Surge_163406.htm
you can hear when the bov opens and how it is a distinctly different sound from the surge.