wiseco7mgt;1483324 said:
Not that Im stalking you or anything but I saw a post on toymods thats all, I hope you get to keep it
High WHP on stock internals
- Thread starter MA71_Static
- Start date
Not that Im stalking you or anything but I saw a post on toymods thats all, I hope you get to keep it
How did you get the fuel to the 2 extra injectors? I have a rebic and I've been trying to find out how to get the fuel to them, more along the lines of something to plug into the tops of the injectors. . . .
MA71_Static;1484015 said:
Have not applied the AIC yet. If I do, I will run alcohol or similar type injectors and use the AIC setup for meth/water injectors.:biglaugh:
The plumbing dilemma is one I will tackle when and if I get there.
-crisp
I'm with Shaeff, It's all about tune, and proper fuel.
When I say tune, it may not be what you think. IMHO, unless you're very familiar with the stock ECU, an SAFC and AFR's in the proper range is NOT considered to be a tune. I don't think I need to explain why.
When I say tune, it may not be what you think. IMHO, unless you're very familiar with the stock ECU, an SAFC and AFR's in the proper range is NOT considered to be a tune. I don't think I need to explain why.
I've always thought it more prudent to spend money on a standalone and a sufficient fuel system than to rely on forged internals to not melt or explode.
In other words, building up a beefy engine then pushing like mad on the stock ECU with piggybacks does work, but also leads to plenty of blown motors. I figure if you can push an original block to 300hp (presumed the maximum available from the stock ECU at elevated boost, aka "fuel cut"), you could push that same block to 500hp or higher with a rock solid tune on a good stand alone system, with the right knowledge, research, fuel, and care. The guts of the motor are sufficiently strong to deal with the stress... it's everything else that appears to cause the guts to fail; heat, detonation, ect.
On the bright side, should you run a stock block and standalone, and gods forbid the stock block blows up, you'll already be set for engine control and fuel... just need to rebuild the motor
In other words, building up a beefy engine then pushing like mad on the stock ECU with piggybacks does work, but also leads to plenty of blown motors. I figure if you can push an original block to 300hp (presumed the maximum available from the stock ECU at elevated boost, aka "fuel cut"), you could push that same block to 500hp or higher with a rock solid tune on a good stand alone system, with the right knowledge, research, fuel, and care. The guts of the motor are sufficiently strong to deal with the stress... it's everything else that appears to cause the guts to fail; heat, detonation, ect.
On the bright side, should you run a stock block and standalone, and gods forbid the stock block blows up, you'll already be set for engine control and fuel... just need to rebuild the motor
Keros;1484279 said:I've always thought it more prudent to spend money on a standalone and a sufficient fuel system than to rely on forged internals to not melt or explode.
In other words, building up a beefy engine then pushing like mad on the stock ECU with piggybacks does work, but also leads to plenty of blown motors. I figure if you can push an original block to 300hp (presumed the maximum available from the stock ECU at elevated boost, aka "fuel cut"), you could push that same block to 500hp or higher with a rock solid tune on a good stand alone system, with the right knowledge, research, fuel, and care. The guts of the motor are sufficiently strong to deal with the stress... it's everything else that appears to cause the guts to fail; heat, detonation, ect.
On the bright side, should you run a stock block and standalone, and gods forbid the stock block blows up, you'll already be set for engine control and fuel... just need to rebuild the motor
Couldn't agree more.
That's why I will always run stock internals on my street cars.
My 675+whp MKIII was on the stock block, and I knew that if the motor ever let go, I still had the standalone/electronics, and the motor was cheap. Of course it never blew, but that was a result of good tuning (if I do say so myself).
As almost every member on here will tell you. Take your time, do it right (the first time), ask questions if your stuck(dont be scared of looking dumb, if it means it will save you time and money), Spend the money on quality parts the first time!, Dont be afaird to seek professional help! Do your research. I didnt do any of those the first time! lol. I slaped a 57trim of my stock 7m (including stock HG and studs) and i payed for it! The second time haha, I got a MHG and some ARP's had the head and the block machined and completly re-did the cooling system. Then had it professional tuned at a reputable shop. I had 394WHP that was completly reliable(but not soild enough to save me from the tractor that hit me )
So in closing i say it's what ever makes you happy. A 7m had the potential to be what ever you want it to be. Any engine will crap out if you do a half fast, cheap job on it.
Cheers
Brenden
)So in closing i say it's what ever makes you happy. A 7m had the potential to be what ever you want it to be. Any engine will crap out if you do a half fast, cheap job on it.
Cheers
Brenden
Reading the last several statements has really made me consider my own personal car lol with the bounty of piggybacks on it. I have a Borg Warner S366 but am hesitant on installing cause of my HKS treasure trove of piggybacks and whatnot. A Standalone looks like a worthwhile investment but the AEM pricetag is pretty steep, maybe megasquirt. But for now what do you think of selling off my piggybacks and going MAFT Pro?? Can I see (reliably) 400WHP?? I have my mod list in my profile, I want to show people that a 7M can be a formitable engine when properly modded
yea def reading the last few post made me reconsider on building up a spare motor and making the move to go standalone.
MA71_Static;1484934 said:
Like i said i had 394WHP that i drove EVERYDAY. Just dont cut couners and take your time
The 7m is a mighty beast just waiting to be unleashed!!!I had all the piggybacks including the ITC and made 640 rwhp with a 67mm turbo. The problem with piggybacks is when people are running down the road wide open and don't keep the accelerator pedal to the floor is the stock ecu will try to achieve a 14.7 a/f ratio. Not good when not at full throttle but still maintaining "X" amount of boost going down the road. I have had people say fine I'll just keep it to the floor, which works great with public highways, local law enforcement, and 600 plus whp.
X-man;1489855 said:
This makes sense to me. I am all HK$ alphabet soup and enjoying making the most of it so far. Stock bottom end, well breathed on head, and a modest 61mm. Haven't pulled actual numbers yet, but it's pretty "strong".:biglaugh:
My goal has always been mid-400's streetable, with a 500whp ticket on race gas or whatever it takes for the ticket without damaging the thing! I have 15 years with the car at 15psi and up on a couple hybrid CT's then this 61mm. I still think I can achieve my goal without blowing it up... although I might need the meth/water to get the "mark" at 500whp.
I, too, have noticed that PARTIAL THROTTLE is the "trick" here. You always end up being "lean" in the part-throttle and/or transition... and when you raise A/F for that "zone"... then too RICH on boost rise off the FPR on full-throttle. So far, I just run on the "rich side" as a compromise, and keep monitoring my AFR's and EGT's, and no issues yet. Further, I have found I can get pretty close at anything above full-spool rpm's with the GCC and VPC's "gain" control (if you can call it that...) and a well-matched boost-rise from base pressure balance off the AFPR. I am keeping at a modest 15~17psi MAX (over 15psi, I'm usually running some high-tes fuel mix for "margin"...) and not EVEN in the "sweet spot" of this spool. (Hate to let that dynamic compression bite me in the ass, you know!) Further of aide is the IPM that helps me know that I'm NOT tapping out the 550cc injectors... by setting the alarm at 80% and NOT letting it creep and hold anything much over that under max load.
Anyway... I would agree from all I've read and learned that the standalone is obviously the BETTER way to approach a modified supra, but at modest levels, the piggyback is CAPABLE of reasonable performance if done carefully, and potentially even pretty aggressive performance, i.e.: closing in on the 500 mark, in some cases. Ultimately, I would have to credit my car and motor's longevity on proper maintenance, being NOT too greedy... and taking it slow and upgrading INCREMENTALLY, where I have a chance to carefully observe the cause/effect at each stage along the way. (Heck, that's true of BUILT bottom ends AND standalone for that matter!) I'd also attribute my experience to GOOD components in the carefully MATCHED array I have of HK$ stuff... and the fact that I have HAD the car for so long and in my possession since '94 when it had only 22k miles on the clock.
(Over 100k now...)Just my $0.02...
BTW, ultimately... I may end up with a standalone and full-built motor SOMEDAY... but in the meantime... I LOVE all my cockpit gadgets!:biglaugh:
OLD SKOOL and HANGIN' IN THERE! HA!
-crisp
I have tuned a completely stock internalled 7m to 450 rwhp@16 psi that is a driver with a/c and the stock Toyota headgasket and headbolts on a VPC/S-AFC combo. This car is a 91 model with 102,000 miles on it and has made 510 rwhp@20.5 psi on 93 octane on several occasions. We do run 110 octane on the street at the 20.5 psi levels though for safety. These combos work and work well as long as you have someone that pays attention to what is going on which gets hard to do at these hp levels. Even paying attention you can still be flirting with a big "oh shit!"
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95859
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95859
MA71_Static;1484934 said:
I am on a stock motor with the exception of an HKS MHG and ARP Headstuds. On the stock fuel system, I made ~300whp for about a year.
I now have all supporting mods along with the Maft Pro. I made a reliable 360-370 for around 6 months. I know that's not a long time; but, I can vouch for the Maft Pro's reliability.
I am no expert or anywhere near it; but, as with all tuning....take baby steps and analyze all data along the way.
