can you benefit from high octane alone as in no timing control? i know the ecu will retard timing if it detects knock but how sensitive is it. any of you guys on stock turbo, higher than stock boost notice a difference between regular 91 and 93 or higher? anyone running a water/alcohol injection kit?
high octane timing
- Thread starter diy guy
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I can clearly feel the difference between 93 octane and 110 octane when I'm running 18psi. Thats whats going to be nice about the MAFT-PRO; We will finally be able to monitor timing and see at what point our ECU's pull timing when detecting knock.
sorry to pull up an old tread, but does the stock ecu advance timing if you run say 99 octane, instead of 93? i didnt know if the stock computers were capiable of the for sure.
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againstdawall06 said:
Nope, the ECU will run a set amount of timing based on load and RPM. If your fuel is good enough to not trip the knk sensors then your ecu will give you the maximium amount of timing in the map. Adding higher octane fuel will do nothing @ that point.
Now if you advance the base timing then you could take advantage of higher octane fuel, to a point. Toyota seems to be pretty aggresive with their timing and I doubt you'd see much gain by advancing the base timing more than 2-3 degrees. You'd be better off just raising the boost a couple of PSI.
where do you get those numbers... 10-12? i dont understand how the timing is set. Could someone please explain?
When i set the timing, I just aligned everything, is there something else i should be doing?
When i set the timing, I just aligned everything, is there something else i should be doing?
on my 3.0 V6 4runner base timing is 10*, but I cranked it up to 12, and gonna try up to 15 like some guys are. Currently on 87 with 12* base I get no detonation. and on our 90T i have the base at 12* and we've run 87 and only gotten slight detonation under accel. Now we run 89 in it, no problems at All.
Do we really need to have a ton of timing?? The motor already has a fast burn head. I would think that your going to set the burn too soon and it will just offset cylinder pressure.
When you just aligned everything you set cam timing, related to the crank.
The 10-12 degrees we are talking about has to do with ignition timing, based on crank position. 10* is actually 10 degrees before top dead center (BTDC). and it's just a reference number set by the ecu when you jumper te1 and e1 on the Check connector. That allows you to set either the cam sensor or distributor to 10* (with a timing light) and it will then be sync'd to the ECU. Toyota programs the ECU for 10 degrees BTDC.
Hope that helps...
z1turbo said:
Are you talking base timing or actual timing?
If your going to play with timing you really need to have the car on a dyno to do comparative runs or tune on a load holding dyno and watch the TQ numbers as you tune. It's a balancing act. Too much timing is bad but so is too little timing. You'll have to figure out for yourself what your car needs.
the more timing you can get away with before detonation, the more power (it does reach a plateau where no more gains are made, thats where the dyno comes in).
I originally asked the question because i was considering a water/alky injection kit to help keep intake temps down at high boost. It's now installed, just needs to be tuned. i dont want to go with a standalone to advance timing, and from what i've heard the emanage sucks at controlling timing so i'll just lean out afr.
scott, you guys have any experience tuning w/ meth injection? btw, I've heard about your shop on di.net
I originally asked the question because i was considering a water/alky injection kit to help keep intake temps down at high boost. It's now installed, just needs to be tuned. i dont want to go with a standalone to advance timing, and from what i've heard the emanage sucks at controlling timing so i'll just lean out afr.
scott, you guys have any experience tuning w/ meth injection? btw, I've heard about your shop on di.net
If anyone wants an indepth look at how the ignition system works on our cars, here is a good write up. And at the end it goes thru how to check initial timing.
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf
diy guy said:
See that's the way I should have said it ;-)
diy guy said:
We have tuned very few cars with WATER injection, and there is one thing I don't like about it. If the car makes power WITH it, it will be on or past the ragged edge of safety without it. That is just my take on it, and I don't mean to sound alarmist about the whole deal, there are a lot of people out there running it successfully.
I'm from the school of thought that says if you can't do it with pump gas, just pour in a some racegas.
diy guy, have you been to our shop yet? If not feel free to swing by. I'm always interested in seeing some local MK3's. We even have a couple of locals in Denton with 1JZ swaps.
I have a greddy warning gauge controlling it for now. It has an optional output (meant to be used for a buzzer) that gets power when the preset boost is met. I'm using this to complete the circuit that activates the injection system. It's set at 14psi so it will only inject when on the high boost setting.
right now I'm using a safc, not so much tunability there, but I have a emanage (+gold hardware update
) ready to replace it. with the emanage I'll be able to trim fuel based on load so I can trim extra fuel only in the +14psi rows to compensate for the alky injection while keeping the lower load values the same.
IIRC the emanage has its own 12v output based on load and rpm so once it's in I can just use that to control the injection right?
Sure, I'd love to stop by your shop. I'll give you guys a call monday to get directions.
right now I'm using a safc, not so much tunability there, but I have a emanage (+gold hardware update
) ready to replace it. with the emanage I'll be able to trim fuel based on load so I can trim extra fuel only in the +14psi rows to compensate for the alky injection while keeping the lower load values the same.IIRC the emanage has its own 12v output based on load and rpm so once it's in I can just use that to control the injection right?
Sure, I'd love to stop by your shop. I'll give you guys a call monday to get directions.