Help...Powerhouse MAP ECU Engine Management Piggyback
- Thread starter Omesh
- Start date
If you have a karmen vortex car, the MAP-ECU is a nice pile of shit. It is quickly being known as the "Crap-ecu." If you have a hotwire car, you will have better results because of the much higher tuning resolution and the fact that Map-ECU was designed for hotwire cars.Omesh said:
Yes, I was the karmen vortex map-ecu guinea pig. Unfortunately, it's still installed on my car, but I'm researching stand alone ecu's so I can rid myself of this unreliable & inconsistent piece of junk once and for all. Now, like I said, if you're car is Hotwire type (ex: 2jz-gte obd I), the map-ecu works fine, but for karmen vortex it sucks. I've been through hell and back with the map-ecu (Installed by PHR Dealer so there were no installation errors OR tuning errors) on my na-t 1995 lexus sc300 so I know what I'm talking about :3d_frown: .BoostedFloto said:
Omesh said:
Saying that you are considering a map-ecu or a standalone is like saying you might get a WWI biplane or an F-15 Eagle.
They are worlds apart. You might want to decide what your goals are with the car, what your budget is, who is going to tune it, do you have access to a chassis dyno?
If money is no object, go with a Motec M800...
JMDigital said:
You'd need an M800 ECU with the wideband A/F option. Someone will have to build you a wiring harness (if anyone wants to go down this road I can do this for you). You'll also need a 5 BAR boost sensor, a Bosch high speed air intake temperature sensor, an ignition expander, a Bosch ignitor, a water temp sensor and the CDI system you'd like to run.
All said and done it will probably run you about $7000 for a full Motec system installed with tuning, etc.
Omesh,
there are plenty of EMS options for you in the less than $1,000 category (including sensors). hell, if you're 7mgte, a member is selling his complete megasquirt II v3 ECU + harness & pre-tune for ~$600-$700. You need to let us know what your setup and budget is. Motec is hella expensive. For the serious racer or car enthusiast with no budget, it's cool. But otherwise, there are so many cheaper alternatives :naughty: .
there are plenty of EMS options for you in the less than $1,000 category (including sensors). hell, if you're 7mgte, a member is selling his complete megasquirt II v3 ECU + harness & pre-tune for ~$600-$700. You need to let us know what your setup and budget is. Motec is hella expensive. For the serious racer or car enthusiast with no budget, it's cool. But otherwise, there are so many cheaper alternatives :naughty: .
yeah im running map ecu now, overall the car runs and drives great, but tuning with it is definetely a pain in the ass.....
you shouldn't just bash on the map-ecu either because if it is really that terrible you have to start bashing on the maft pro and vpc because they also convert the karmen vortex signal to MAP and will have the same issues
a standalone is a whole other world and if you want to remove the AFM it is by far the best way to go especially on our cars. however i would not reccomend the mega squirt because i had an extremely bad experience with it resulting in a broken piston pin and trashed block. wouldn't it seem that a build it yourself ecu is not the best choice to controll your expensive parts?
if you do not believe me, Tun_x can back up the story the MS is absolutely no good In my opinion.
you shouldn't just bash on the map-ecu either because if it is really that terrible you have to start bashing on the maft pro and vpc because they also convert the karmen vortex signal to MAP and will have the same issues
a standalone is a whole other world and if you want to remove the AFM it is by far the best way to go especially on our cars. however i would not reccomend the mega squirt because i had an extremely bad experience with it resulting in a broken piston pin and trashed block. wouldn't it seem that a build it yourself ecu is not the best choice to controll your expensive parts?
if you do not believe me, Tun_x can back up the story the MS is absolutely no good In my opinion.
Actually, my map-ecu is bashing is entirely justified. It is a HALF-ASS tune. If I pay $500-$600 and the sales guy tells me it will be perfect for my car, I expect it to work perfect just like stock. Having the tune go to shit when the weather changes with MAP-ECU is completely UNACCEPTABLE. And if all other piggy-backs behave the same way (i.e. half-ass tune that is not consistent with jerky reliability), than a good standalone with a good tune is the only way.boostadikt said:
I know persons that are running perfectly and smooth with Megasquirt II v3. But, it's not the only stand alone out there. You can get a nice Haltech stand alone for your car for ~$700 and there are several other stand alone ecu's out there. At least with a stand-alone ECU and proper tune, you'll have consistent driveability in all weather conditions since there will be no fighting between oem toyota ecu and piggy-back computer.
you need to re-read my post......... and all piggy back ecu's will gradually loose their tune because all you are doing is fooling the factory ecu. you seem to have experience with the map ecu and not much else for piggy backs, because while i agree with you that the map ecu is a large pain in the ass, you will have ALL the same problems trying to convert a Manifold pressure to a KVK voltage for the factory ecu to read and it will be constantly trying to adjust itself. even with an Safc you will gradually loose your tune.
the map ecu is a good product for what it is, yes there is better even in the piggy back world. but if you want to make power and not worry about the car relearning then get a standalone or send your ecu to japan to get flashed.
and while any standalone is a good buy, the megasquirt is at the bottom of the list. something like the Haltech is cheap and is an effective and quality product
the map ecu is a good product for what it is, yes there is better even in the piggy back world. but if you want to make power and not worry about the car relearning then get a standalone or send your ecu to japan to get flashed.
and while any standalone is a good buy, the megasquirt is at the bottom of the list. something like the Haltech is cheap and is an effective and quality product
Maft-Pro.
I'll be tooting that horn for a while now! Running 4.80 and it's amazing - I can monitor timing (haven't wired it to adjust the timing yet), I got rid of the stock AFM, can have it basically auto-tune via the WB02....
Why aren't you considering the MAFT-Pro? You can go SD (speed density) just like the MAP-ECU. The MAFT-Pro also has automatic adjustment for baro and IAT temps.
I'll be tooting that horn for a while now! Running 4.80 and it's amazing - I can monitor timing (haven't wired it to adjust the timing yet), I got rid of the stock AFM, can have it basically auto-tune via the WB02....
Why aren't you considering the MAFT-Pro? You can go SD (speed density) just like the MAP-ECU. The MAFT-Pro also has automatic adjustment for baro and IAT temps.
Perhaps you should also re-read my post. I never said map-ecu was difficult to tune. I was emphasizing that the tune goes to shit and is not consistent, thereby negating the notion of any proper "tune." Map-Ecu is not worth the money for karmen vortex cars. The tune will even go to crap in the same weather conditions...pls don't get me started on all the other issues with map-ecu tooboostadikt said:
. I heartily disagree when you say it's a good product for what it is. For KARMEN VORTEX CARS, DO NOT GET THE MAP-ECU (aka CRAP-ECU). My understanding is the map-ecu is good for OBD I 2JZ-GTE cars since the ECU does not "relearn" and it's a hotwire car. Please do not give any hinderance of praise to the map-ecu because it is overpriced junk for karmen vortex cars :3d_frown: .Doward,
the maft pro certainly sounds interesting. But my worry is that it will have similar issues the map-ecu has on karmen vortex cars (i.e. tune constantly crapping out, shitty drivability--> hesitation/bog/intermittent jerking, etc). What's the "411" on the Maft-pro and these typica piggy-back karmen vortex issues?
So far all is good. The MAFT-Pro does its own internal calculations to determine what Fout should be (the KV freq to output) - Mine is currently set in SD mode, and I'm still using the base VE maps.
Once those are tuned, the MAFT-pro will output a specific KV freq to the TCCS, based on those calculations (also taking into consideration such things as Mainscale, which is where you set up if you have 550s, 440s, increased FP, decreased FP - you calculate that yourself, and set the mainscale)
This Fout frequency should be the correct airflow reading the TCCS would have gotten anyway - if you use say, 550s, and have the mainscale @ -25% (or whatever, lol) then you can use a before and after of the timing map, to decide where and how much timing you should take out to return your timing to normal.
Especially with the WOT AFR tracking feature, and now implemented a PT AFR tracking feature, I can see no reason at all that the MAFT-Pro + WB02 of your choice would ever 'lose' your tune.
Once those are tuned, the MAFT-pro will output a specific KV freq to the TCCS, based on those calculations (also taking into consideration such things as Mainscale, which is where you set up if you have 550s, 440s, increased FP, decreased FP - you calculate that yourself, and set the mainscale)
This Fout frequency should be the correct airflow reading the TCCS would have gotten anyway - if you use say, 550s, and have the mainscale @ -25% (or whatever, lol) then you can use a before and after of the timing map, to decide where and how much timing you should take out to return your timing to normal.
Especially with the WOT AFR tracking feature, and now implemented a PT AFR tracking feature, I can see no reason at all that the MAFT-Pro + WB02 of your choice would ever 'lose' your tune.
Anyone tried a Map Ecu on the GE electronics? I'm considering using this as the piggyback if I'm going the NA-T route.
-Matt
-Matt