headlights inop

metaphysico

Mad Scientist
Jan 2, 2008
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Gainesville, Georgia
So the fun continues with this car. As stated the headlights do not work now. I have tested at the relay and if I jumper power to the output of the headlight relay the lights work. I have three powers and one ground to the relay, two are supposed to be power the ground goes to the lights (the one I jump to get the lights to work) and the last is power but should be open when the switch is off and ground when the switch is on.

Now it gets strange because if I plug the relay in and ground the relay magnet (ie trigger) the lights come on but it also sounds the alarm horn. So looking at the wiring it seems to be a very overly complicated system that runs through too many relay boxes, but after tracking all of the wiring the two supply powers to the relay come from a battery power. The one line is output to the headlight fuses and then onto the headlights themselves as power. The ground for the headlights is supplied by the high/low setting on the multi-function switch. So with all that aside the grounds work properly and they change between high and low when switched, but that is while I jumper power to the relay output.

So it would appear that I have a short to power somewhere in the system of the headlight relay trigger circuit. Now this wire goes from the relay and is feed by the retractor/retainer relay. From there I don't know what feeds it because the wiring diagrams I have don't show connection logic. So in the hope of an easy fix I tried replacing all of the parts of the system I could think of with spares I have lying around. So I replaced the multi-function switch, the retractor/retainer relay, and the theft module, and none of them had any effect. So I am wondering if anyone else has run into this problem and where the alarm fits into this mess as when I jumper the trigger wire the alarm horn sounds.

The alarm seems to function properly, it sets like it should and if I unlock a locked door with the window down the alarm goes off and the lights pop up but don't flash although the horn does work like normal. So anyone got any ideas as to what the problem may be? The wiring runs around a large area of the car and I am not sure if I am looking for a short to power or maybe a loss of ground but when the alarm comes in to play I am not sure how it affects the system. Btw the lights were working fine and then just stopped. I did put led turn signals in it around the same time but they don't seem to have any common ties to the headlights except through the switch that turns them on and they work perfectly.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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The integration relay supplies ground based on percieved commands of the headlight switch.

Did you work at Toyota ever? I don't remember. It is rare, but I have seen an integration relay act up once or twice before. Grounding the relay will feed ground to the relay where the trasistor is trying to apply it. The theft deterent ECU works with the integration relay also. So don't ground the relay. You can't have a short to power on the headlights, as they are always powered.

What year?
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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I forgot to say, but I think you would do it anyway. Check that the signal from the switch is making it to the integration relay.
 

metaphysico

Mad Scientist
Jan 2, 2008
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Its an 88 actually, and no never worked at toyota just honda. Anyways the short to power I am talking about is the trigger for the head light relay, it should go to ground when the switch is on and that will supply ground for the magnet in the relay and the other side is power making the relay connect another power to the light fuses. I just have a power though and testing on bombs car showed that when the lights are off the trigger should be open no power no ground, now when the lights are on it should switch to ground and activate the relay. If I supply ground to the trigger the relay clicks and the lights work but the horn also comes on. Here is the setup of the relay standing at the fender facing the intake.

12v from battery.............................. trigger wire should go to ground(i have constant power on this wire when key is on, maybe all the time)
.................................. |....... |......................... these two operate the magnet
.................................|........... |............................. this is the pass through when relay is active
12v from battery output to head lights

EDIT: Sorry for the dots it takes the spaces out.

Now I am guessing the integration relay you are talking about is what alldata calls the retractor/retainer relay, even though its a computer box more than just a relay. I am very good at electrical diagnostics but this system is overly complicated and I don't have any schematics for what is going on in the retainer relay or the theft module, and without taking them apart and making a full wiring schematic of them inside I have hit the wall on back tracking the trigger ground source. Now the other thing is, if I simply was missing a ground I would have an open not a power on the trigger. And I have tried a working multifunction switch, retractor/retainer relay, and theft module, none making any difference.

Thanks for the help so far nick any other ideas im open to them. I will try to get some pics up and upload the wiring diagrams I am working with since I am highlighting all the circuit paths on them.
 
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Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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The integration relay is really a body computer. Toyota just calls it that because...well...because. Power to your headlight relay is constant on both sides, shared from the fuse. The relay switches ground via transistors. The command is the headlight switch. And yes, the retract control relay is also the integration relay. So besides switching power with the relay, it switches with transistors as I mentioned.

I scanned the 88 EWD as a large image so you will have clarity when expanded.

88%20headlights.jpg


88%20headlight%20connector.jpg
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
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Exactly the same issues I had... Replaced the integration relay with one from the junkyard and it was fixed. It actually has relays inside of it, as such, they wear and stop working like any other relay. Worst part is, it's one box that's expensive as hell brand new...
 

metaphysico

Mad Scientist
Jan 2, 2008
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Thank you Nick M after seeing the diagram you posted showing the intergrated circuit and the transistors it seemed to be that the only way power to get to the trigger was through the integration relay through the ic. Now the problem is fixed by putting the ir from my car into my wifes, but the thing is I have an extra and it too was bad, with either the original from her car or the one from my parts car the headlights did not work, so that means I have to bad integration relays, wow god really hates me. I guess its a good thing I have so many supras. Poodles I passed off your idea as being wrong because I already replaced hers with one that I know was good but it would seem as though you were right. Thank you both for your help and fuck god, that son of a bitch seems to hate me so much all of the time. Hahahah sorry not religious at all just making the joke for fun sake. I am going to a friends house tomorrow to help him part his parts car to I guess I can grab his relay to replace mine. Damn what luck I have to have two bad relays thats great.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
8,897
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48
U.S.
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Did you check to see if the circuit for the combination switch is not broken? Looking at the diagram, the integration relay seems like it is watching for connectivity to ground. So I think you should make sure it is good, and that is the signal.
 

ShadowBlack

New Member
Jul 12, 2010
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:: angry ::I seem to have the exact same problem. can you tell me where the integration relay is located. Oh I have a 90 turbo. Please help
 

ShadowBlack

New Member
Jul 12, 2010
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I have tried everything else. replaced the switch , relay, fuses. Had a guy that knows more about electronics than me test everything he could think of and the tests on the relay sound exactly as described. I'm at the end of my rope. Thanks for the help everyone very much appreciated.
 

ShadowBlack

New Member
Jul 12, 2010
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jetjock;1942048 said:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/EPC/291420/part.aspx?S=85964

I wouldn't be buying anything before knowing for sure that was the problem...

These are what I had ordered from ebay before you sent me part number 86-92 Toyota Supra X#98 Retractor Control Module Relay 85964-20011
86-92 Toyota Supra Turbo Integration Relay 82641-14010 051220
Ebay"s parts list says they fit 90 turbo all models. What do you think?