T
Gas saving idea from the other forum
- Thread starter JustAnotherVictim
- Start date
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
I've driven the V8/V4 used in the new Suburban. What a nice idea in the wrong aplication. (Too large a vehicle for too small of a motor.)
Best ways to save fuel on the Supra Turbo is the following.
1) Open up your exhaust. Get rid of your cats too.
2) Make sure your plugs and wires are in good shape.
3) Inflate your tires to 40psi.
4) Use synthetic oils. (They have less friction, so you get better mileage.)
5) Clean and wax your car.
6) Drive with the windows up and AC on v/s no AC and windows down. This is really true at higher speeds where drag becomes more of a factor on gas mileage.
If you have a fuel computer, or standalone that is capable of lean operation, you might try running 16:1 at low load, but watch the EGT's and don't melt down anything. A gradual change from 14.7 to 15, then 15.5 and up to 16:1 would be a good way to test this on your engine. It would also need to go back to 14.7 as soon as your "load" is added, or your going to get wicked detonation I'd think. (Test it and tell us if I'm right or wrong, I'd love to find out I'm wrong, so I could tune my car to 16:1 light load conditons and get 30+ mpg on the highway.) Screw emmisions, I don't care about what comes out the tailpipe, only what gas mileage improvements can be found.
One more thing. Those of you that voted for Liberal, tree hugging politicians, thanks very much for our high gas prices! Your buddies in power have limited our ability to find and refine new supplies of oil, and caused us to go looking for it outside of the country in place that are being thrown into war at the moment. (And have been for centuries.)
Let's get to work drilling and producing here in North America where we know the oil is located, and in a few years, we will not be as worried about what rag head "A" says to rag head "B"...
Best ways to save fuel on the Supra Turbo is the following.
1) Open up your exhaust. Get rid of your cats too.
2) Make sure your plugs and wires are in good shape.
3) Inflate your tires to 40psi.
4) Use synthetic oils. (They have less friction, so you get better mileage.)
5) Clean and wax your car.
6) Drive with the windows up and AC on v/s no AC and windows down. This is really true at higher speeds where drag becomes more of a factor on gas mileage.
If you have a fuel computer, or standalone that is capable of lean operation, you might try running 16:1 at low load, but watch the EGT's and don't melt down anything. A gradual change from 14.7 to 15, then 15.5 and up to 16:1 would be a good way to test this on your engine. It would also need to go back to 14.7 as soon as your "load" is added, or your going to get wicked detonation I'd think. (Test it and tell us if I'm right or wrong, I'd love to find out I'm wrong, so I could tune my car to 16:1 light load conditons and get 30+ mpg on the highway.) Screw emmisions, I don't care about what comes out the tailpipe, only what gas mileage improvements can be found.
One more thing. Those of you that voted for Liberal, tree hugging politicians, thanks very much for our high gas prices! Your buddies in power have limited our ability to find and refine new supplies of oil, and caused us to go looking for it outside of the country in place that are being thrown into war at the moment. (And have been for centuries.)
Let's get to work drilling and producing here in North America where we know the oil is located, and in a few years, we will not be as worried about what rag head "A" says to rag head "B"...
Here is the best fuel friendly supra out there. It will run on bread and water or rammen noodles even. :biglaugh:
The Supra DLX
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/bmxforlife/page48.html
The Supra DLX
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/bmxforlife/page48.html
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Well, as Israel and Syria are on the brink of war again, and Iran is supplying Hezballah with missiles, get ready for 4.00 gas very soon. (or more in some states with really high taxes on fuel.)
Thanks for the info JetJock. I remember flying with my brother, and him leaning out the mix based on EGT temps to get the best fuel consumption at cruising speed.
I want to make sure I'm straight on this. Up to 75% of the "power" band can be run lean, and you only have to go richer during the last 25%? (I'd be very carefull about this untill some datalog info comes back, but it is a great idea to check out.)
I'm not a Maft Pro expert yet, but can't we determine the AF at various RPM and TPS points? I remember reading something about three ranges, and at first only the last range was able to be based on wideband reading, but now it's the middle and top range that you can set to run off WB ratio signals right?
I'd be very happy with 66% or so of my throttle use being run on the lean side actually. (as noted, I don't give a crap about emmissions unless they are testing me.) My car with no cat almost passed the test here locally, so it's running pretty clean anyway.
Only thing I'd be worried about is boosting under that 66% range, and running lean while under pressure. That should induce detonation right? Or is the lean fuel mix going to limit detonation anyway to the point where it will not happen?
Thanks for the info JetJock. I remember flying with my brother, and him leaning out the mix based on EGT temps to get the best fuel consumption at cruising speed.
I want to make sure I'm straight on this. Up to 75% of the "power" band can be run lean, and you only have to go richer during the last 25%? (I'd be very carefull about this untill some datalog info comes back, but it is a great idea to check out.)
I'm not a Maft Pro expert yet, but can't we determine the AF at various RPM and TPS points? I remember reading something about three ranges, and at first only the last range was able to be based on wideband reading, but now it's the middle and top range that you can set to run off WB ratio signals right?
I'd be very happy with 66% or so of my throttle use being run on the lean side actually. (as noted, I don't give a crap about emmissions unless they are testing me.) My car with no cat almost passed the test here locally, so it's running pretty clean anyway.
Only thing I'd be worried about is boosting under that 66% range, and running lean while under pressure. That should induce detonation right? Or is the lean fuel mix going to limit detonation anyway to the point where it will not happen?
Adjuster said:
you need to see how much load your under at cruise (60mph?) and then maybe 1% above that and below set it as your lean cruise range, much easyer todo with an aftermarket ecu where you can have it switch to a lean cruise map when the cruise control is turned on
Auto manufacturers have "extreme lean cruise" as it is sometimes called. It takes much more fuel to accelerate than just hold speed. My 5.0 Mustang with the T5 and 3.08 rear would get 18-20 on a tank, but 27 on a highway trip with that programming. It is how the LS1 Corvettes are pushing 30 on the highway also.
It's a standard zirconium sensor Allan. It's there to serve the cat, that's it's sole purpose in life. It'll output 0 to about 800 millivolts but has a sharp transition at 450 millivots. It doesn't have a linear output. That's why the wideband (A/F Ratio) sensor was invented.
Stoichiometric mixture is 450 millivolts on a zirconium sensor. Lower is leaner and higher is richer. If you measure the signal when the engine is hot and in closed loop you should see it switching from lean to rich with about 450 millivots as an average. If so that means everything is working and your mixture is being controlled to what the cat converter needs to work at top efficiency. The cat needs needs this flip flopping of the mixture on either side of stoich to operate properly.
If the signal is switching but shifted above or below 450 you're still in closed loop but there's a problem somewhere. If it's stuck at 0 or 800 millivolts you're no longer in closed loop and have more serious problems. All this applies only to steady state conditions ie; idle, cruise, ect. The ECU ignores the O2 sensor at other times.
Stoichiometric mixture is 450 millivolts on a zirconium sensor. Lower is leaner and higher is richer. If you measure the signal when the engine is hot and in closed loop you should see it switching from lean to rich with about 450 millivots as an average. If so that means everything is working and your mixture is being controlled to what the cat converter needs to work at top efficiency. The cat needs needs this flip flopping of the mixture on either side of stoich to operate properly.
If the signal is switching but shifted above or below 450 you're still in closed loop but there's a problem somewhere. If it's stuck at 0 or 800 millivolts you're no longer in closed loop and have more serious problems. All this applies only to steady state conditions ie; idle, cruise, ect. The ECU ignores the O2 sensor at other times.
jetjock said:
problem is it might have the same standard .45/.5v switch point but maybe different at 16:1 where im interested...
hopefully it can read 16:1 ok or ill have to see how long the wideband sensor lasts and if its worth the fuel savings!
Noooo wayyy??:icon_razzjetjock said:The internet is not just a global pornography network you know
^I always thought it was free porn, ebay, and car sites....nothing more.
I feel bad for anyone who tries this...For the price of their replacement motor, they could buy a beater civic that gets 38mpg on a bad day...
I feel bad for anyone who tries this...For the price of their replacement motor, they could buy a beater civic that gets 38mpg on a bad day...
I figure, if you can afford a bigger turbo, rims, and all the other items we spend thousands of dollar on,
you should be able to fess up 50 bucks to fill the car up with gas.
you should be able to fess up 50 bucks to fill the car up with gas.
$50 to fill up?? I never top $30 and that's on 93 octane...and I hardly ever drive as of late. I go out at night to try and break in the new clutch but that's about it. If I need anything from a store I either...
a) Walk
b) Take the bus
c) Wait til someone else is going to the store and catch a ride
And so far...it's been phenomenal...best gas saver ever
a) Walk
b) Take the bus
c) Wait til someone else is going to the store and catch a ride
And so far...it's been phenomenal...best gas saver ever
Cost me 45 to fill up my tank from a 1/4 marker!! 55 to completly fill it.
How much you pay a gallon there?
How much you pay a gallon there?
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Well, if this is done right, as Jetjock notes, there really is no downside. (And that's why the OEM aplications work so well using wideband 02 sensors.)
Ultra lean operation, in the 25:1 range is possible too, but emmisions become a problem. I know on the FSI engines in Europe, they can run these ratios, but here in the states, due to the regs, they can't run as lean, so the fuel economy dropps. Imagine a 4.2L V8 FSI engine that makes 420hp, and returns 35mpg. What is equally nifty is that in a race car aplication, this same FSI (Direct fuel injection.) was used on the R8 race cars with turbo charging and they had the best of both worlds. Power and fuel economy. The RS4 is using this engine here in the US, but without the European fuel map for lean operation. (I wonder if like all the other Audi products, if they just programed all the maps into the computer, and you have to select the right code to activate them? I know they do this with the transmisison control maps, basicly every computer is the same, but they have different ideas of how to shift programed into them. On my A8, I've changed the transmission over to the much more sporty European shift map. It will hold in gear to redline if your foot is to the floor, it holds gear longer after you pass or when the car is cornering so it's not shifting mid corner too. All nice features, but slightly weird compared to "normal" automatics.)
Jetjock, you mentioned building a device to "jiggle" the signal being read by the TCCS. Any chance you would post a photo, or how to build one? Having it tied into the cruise control would be cool.
I'd think with the cold start injector being there to richen up the start, we should be able to idle at leaner conditions, and run around at low throttle positions lean as well. (I have no cats 99.9% of the time. Only put the stock one back in to pass emissions tests, then remove it for next year.)
Ultra lean operation, in the 25:1 range is possible too, but emmisions become a problem. I know on the FSI engines in Europe, they can run these ratios, but here in the states, due to the regs, they can't run as lean, so the fuel economy dropps. Imagine a 4.2L V8 FSI engine that makes 420hp, and returns 35mpg. What is equally nifty is that in a race car aplication, this same FSI (Direct fuel injection.) was used on the R8 race cars with turbo charging and they had the best of both worlds. Power and fuel economy. The RS4 is using this engine here in the US, but without the European fuel map for lean operation. (I wonder if like all the other Audi products, if they just programed all the maps into the computer, and you have to select the right code to activate them? I know they do this with the transmisison control maps, basicly every computer is the same, but they have different ideas of how to shift programed into them. On my A8, I've changed the transmission over to the much more sporty European shift map. It will hold in gear to redline if your foot is to the floor, it holds gear longer after you pass or when the car is cornering so it's not shifting mid corner too. All nice features, but slightly weird compared to "normal" automatics.)
Jetjock, you mentioned building a device to "jiggle" the signal being read by the TCCS. Any chance you would post a photo, or how to build one? Having it tied into the cruise control would be cool.
I'd think with the cold start injector being there to richen up the start, we should be able to idle at leaner conditions, and run around at low throttle positions lean as well. (I have no cats 99.9% of the time. Only put the stock one back in to pass emissions tests, then remove it for next year.)
Always remember, 14.7:1 has nothing to do with how the engine is operating, but keeping the monolithic cat in its primary operating range.
s383mmber1 said:
It's been jumping between $2.80-3.20...but it's been around $3.09ish lately
EDIT: WOOT! 300 posts