Fuel Pressure Damper Leak: Washers

[nctexan]

I found a post similar to the problem I'm having but it is in the 7M forum, and I am dealing with a 1JZ thus my reasoning for this thread. For reference purposes here is the link to the 7M issue:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?129750-Gas-leak&highlight=fuel+pressure+damper

So now for mine:

Upon attempting to start my car for the first time after finishing the 1J swap, fuel started spraying everywhere from underneath the fuel pressure damper. I removed the damper, and found there to be only one washer, on the damper side, which is the washer I've labeled as #1 in the photo. It looks to be aluminum. There was no washer on the opposite side of the banjo fitting.

After unsuccessful attempts of using non-specific copper crush washers obtained from NAPA, I picked up what Champion told me was required for the damper assembly, 2 washers, p/n's 23270B and 23807J, as called out in the 7M fuel component diagram below, and washers 3 and 2, respectively, in the photo above.

However, after looking at the fuel system components for the 1J, as outlined in the following diagram,

http://supramania.ru/wiring/Fig 22-11.pdf

it is clear to see that it calls out for two of only one type of washer that the 7M uses, the 23270B.

So my two issues of concern are as follows:

1) Is the #1 washer supposed to be on the damper, because it is not called out in the 1JZ or the 7M fuel system diagram.

2) How is one able to maintain alignment of the 23270B (#3) washers on the sealing surfaces if there is so much clearance between the FPD bolt and the ID of the washer?? (the motor is in the car so it is a very tight working environment), (see below):

Thanks for any and all words of wisdom.

 

[zoppii]

I just put mine back in again this weekend removing my SS line to fix the dreaded lean spot at 3K (another story). I have no leaks. I ran into a similar washer issue you did because I somehow lost the washer that seats on the bottom of the Banjo bolt. End result was that after looking at several Auto parts stores that didn't have metric sized washers or one that looks like #1, I just pulled one off from a FPD I had for a Camry and it had the same size washer.
So the way mine is set up is; your washer labeled #1 is the one that I fit tight against the FPD itself. The other washer I used will look more like #2 and should fit tight against the bolt without having to screw it on and therefore doesn't need "centering". It's actually the same washer thats used to bolt the line to the fuel rail if you want a reference. I knew this would work just fine after evaluating the mating surface contact area between line fitting (ring nipple) and the mounting block. It completely covers both surface areas. Just make sure if you are going to reuse one that there aren't any deep scores in them and you'll be fine.
Good Luck.

 

[nctexan]

Thanks zoppii, so you are certain washer #1 is used. I just dont understand why the stupid diagrams call out washers that aren't anything like washer #1, and seem to be much larger (ID wise) than what looks to be required to keep em centered.

 

[zoppii]

Yep #1 first against the FPD, the line ring and then the small round washer against the mounting block and I have no leaks.

If you look at the bottom of the FPD you'll see that the idea is that washer #1 has those little spacers on the inside ring to keep it centered and extend the washer part to the far outside of the FPD where it mates up at the point it's a complete circle. Kind of hard to explain without pictures but the idea is to make sure the washers completely seals against both surfaces when it's screwed together.

 

[aphxero]

the ones for 4ag are a direct fit too. Just saying.

 

[nctexan]

I'm very frustrated. I tried the #1 washer on the top, the #2 on the bottom. Still leaked like crazy. Then I assumed it wasn't tight enough so kept wrenching on it, and ended up ruining the FPD itself b/c I lifted up while torquing. How in the hell do you tighten this thing correctly with the motor in the car? There is so little room. The good news is...I started the car for the first time tonight!!! I've been working on this swap for over a year! She sounds beautiful, but again, can't do anything but shut her back off until I fix this very annoying problem.

aphxero, what is a "4ag"?

 

[eyesoarer6]

Im on the same boat but my leak is on the FPD to the fuel rail. I tried 3 FPDs- 1JZ, GE and a 2JZGTE. Clearly it has to be a washer issue cause it still leaking. I tried 2 different types of crush washers and but it still didnt help.

I googled 4ag = Corolla?

 

[destrux]

The reason for those tabs on the #1 washer is that the fuel flows between the ID of the washer and the bolt and if you use a smaller washer you'll block off the fuel flow. Someone else did that a while back and there was a thread about that cause their car wouldn't run. You need that tabbed washer. The 7M FPD is different from the 1JZ damper, so the washers are different.

Also, if I remember right, if the 1JZ FPD banjo fitting is flipped over backwards, it will not seal and it will leak like a bastard. I think one side has a bigger hole than the other side. The larger side faces the damper and uses the tabbed washer to seal.

 

[aphxero]

^ this is correct. One side is 10mm one is 12mm. Why not just gt rid of it?

 

[nctexan]

The reason for those tabs on the #1 washer is that the fuel flows between the ID of the washer and the bolt and if you use a smaller washer you'll block off the fuel flow. Someone else did that a while back and there was a thread about that cause their car wouldn't run. You need that tabbed washer. The 7M FPD is different from the 1JZ damper, so the washers are different.

Also, if I remember right, if the 1JZ FPD banjo fitting is flipped over backwards, it will not seal and it will leak like a bastard. I think one side has a bigger hole than the other side. The larger side faces the damper and uses the tabbed washer to seal.

Destrux, I did notice the difference in diameters between the two sides of the fitting before the last re-install, and the way I put it in is the correct way as you've described it. It still leaked like a little bitch.

^ this is correct. One side is 10mm one is 12mm. Why not just gt rid of it?

Ok lets say I want to get rid of it, because I hate this little fucker (FPD) already. That means I'd need to pull the motor and install an entirely new fuel rail right? UGGhhhh but I just finally got everything together!! :-(

 

[zoppii]

If you put the line on the fuel rail first the ring nipple should naturally be positioned 12mm up and 10mm down providing your line isn't all bent up out of shape. Since fuel enters through hole in the center the banjo bolt (bottom side) you'll use the round washer that fit's tight against the thread (like #2) in your picture on the bottom side where it bolts into the mount.

I agree with aphxero. If you can get rid of it then you might as well. I bought the braided bypass line from Driftmotion and had it on there but found that although I made it much better, I could never completely tune out the lean spot that some of us see at around 3K rpm using my SAFC. http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?127857-Unique-1jz-3k-rpm-breakup
Some people never have a problem and others do, so try you might try and and if it works out, then great. It seems like it's more common if you have a big single upgrade and supporting fuel mods like bigger injectors and Walbro FP. Stock 1JZ owners seem to report less issues. I don't know your setup but if you have a stand alone and/or a Bosch 044 fuel pump than you shouldn't even worry about it just buy the by pass line and be done with it. You'll never see that problem.

Aaron (DM) was going to work on a fix for this given the number of people with this issue but last time I contacted him he told me to give him a few weeks. That was a while ago though so maybe he has something by now, you might want to ask.

 

[nctexan]

Just sent Aaron an inquiry, but I talked to him day b4 yesterday about me having difficulty sealing the FPD off and he didn't mention anything so I doubt there's been any progress towards a fix on his end.

How do you guys go about tightening the stock FPD with the motor in the car? I tried using a 22mm wrench but the damn thing is too long, I could cut it down but even with using a shorter cresent wrench, which I know I'm gonna catch hell for admitting now, it is still a huge PITA.

Is it possible to use a crow's foot with an extension from underneath the car??

 

[nctexan]

The reason for those tabs on the #1 washer is that the fuel flows between the ID of the washer and the bolt and if you use a smaller washer you'll block off the fuel flow. Someone else did that a while back and there was a thread about that cause their car wouldn't run. You need that tabbed washer. The 7M FPD is different from the 1JZ damper, so the washers are different.

Also, if I remember right, if the 1JZ FPD banjo fitting is flipped over backwards, it will not seal and it will leak like a bastard. I think one side has a bigger hole than the other side. The larger side faces the damper and uses the tabbed washer to seal.

Crap so I have to have a 1JZ dampener for it to work then? In other words, now that I've jacked mine up, a 7M-GTE dampener will not work?

 

[zoppii]

There's your answer. The 7M FPD fits in the fuel rail itself and is not the same.

 

[Kruso]

Sean, call me and we'll get this straightened out. I think you call and left a message but I didn't miss a call from you for some reason. I recently switched phones and lost alot of my old numbers.

Kruso

 

[aphxero]

nah getting rid is easy. You can take a stock fitting that would go on the 7m fuel filter from the body (or any other filter of that type it's 10mm opening on both sides) and cut the outer crimp off of it with like a dremel or whatever. Make sure you cut just the crimp and not the inner barb. Inside it's just an 8mm (5/16) barb so you put a hose and clamp on it. Easy as pie Reuse the bolt that goes into the back of the rail for it and it's all good. The other end of that line on the body is the same way. So if you remove the line and cut the crimps off from both ends you've just converted your fuel system to 8mm barb (like nissan) now you can make that hose as long as you want. Long enough to get to the rail. Be smart about routing it ya know?

I might have a pic but it's seriously easy. I do it like that all the time. Just make sure you use EFI hose it's like $5 a foot at auto parts store. So this whole deal should cost you like $10-15 max.

So easy.

 

[destrux]

Wait a minute... a few posts back you said you'd have to change the fuel rail to get rid of the damper (which you don't). The 1JZ damper doesn't go on the fuel rail at all. It goes on the adapter on the side of the engine block under the manifold. If you're trying to put it on the fuel rail you might be causing the problem right there.

 

[nctexan]

There's your answer. The 7M FPD fits in the fuel rail itself and is not the same.

Ok, so since I ruined my 1J damper, and the 7m will not work, I will have to go the FPD bypass route now, correct?

Sean, call me and we'll get this straightened out. I think you call and left a message but I didn't miss a call from you for some reason. I recently switched phones and lost alot of my old numbers.

Kruso

Cool man talk soon...

nah getting rid is easy. You can take a stock fitting that would go on the 7m fuel filter from the body (or any other filter of that type it's 10mm opening on both sides) and cut the outer crimp off of it with like a dremel or whatever. Make sure you cut just the crimp and not the inner barb. Inside it's just an 8mm (5/16) barb so you put a hose and clamp on it. Easy as pie Reuse the bolt that goes into the back of the rail for it and it's all good. The other end of that line on the body is the same way. So if you remove the line and cut the crimps off from both ends you've just converted your fuel system to 8mm barb (like nissan) now you can make that hose as long as you want. Long enough to get to the rail. Be smart about routing it ya know?

I might have a pic but it's seriously easy. I do it like that all the time. Just make sure you use EFI hose it's like $5 a foot at auto parts store. So this whole deal should cost you like $10-15 max.

So easy.

I'm not really following you, a pic would be a huge help! Thanks regardless!

 

[aphxero]

okay so you know that fuel feed line that comes from the body that has a 10mm banjo fitting on it? You need to make it long enough to reach the back of the rail. I'll try to get a pic or maybe draw it out. Like I said it's very easy.