Front brake cooling duct in place of the Fog Light

[supraguru05]

Im about 2 weeks out from making my ducts.

pscorkr i was ok with turbo blue fluid and ebc pads on street tires, the pads were marginal and had to be changed after every weekend of racing. the last event of the year i ran 275 RA1s and immediately over heated the brakes. when i came home the pedal felt weird, no amount of bleeding fixed it. after the car sat for a week the front caliper seal final showed that it was blown and my garage filled with brake fluid, so i highly recommend getting ducts on as soon as possible.

 

[prsrcokr]

Which EBC pads guru? I haven't tried the EBC's but didn't trust they billed one as a quiet street and race pad with some insane temp range (I don't think there is such a thing)

I'm using the Raybestos ST-41 in front and some Porterfield rears (R41) with Valvoline Synpower (old blend, silver bottle) fluid. Also still have the dust shields in place. Haven't faded these pads yet (235/255 street tires) but they are true race pads. I have to be on the brakes longer to drop speeds on these tires but I've had instructors running them on 350z's with 275 V710's that can also lock them up easily. Overkill for my tires but it's what I needed for heat. I had fried the dust seal on the older calipers and replaced them but no damage to the inner seal yet. Someone needs to offer a hi-temp silicone seal for the calipers, maybe that would help?

I still think the stock brakes pretty capable but I'm not on R's yet and probably don't have the same power you do.
Brian

 

[supraguru05]

Which EBC pads guru? I haven't tried the EBC's but didn't trust they billed one as a quiet street and race pad with some insane temp range (I don't think there is such a thing)

I'm using the Raybestos ST-41 in front and some Porterfield rears (R41) with Valvoline Synpower (old blend, silver bottle) fluid. Also still have the dust shields in place. Haven't faded these pads yet (235/255 street tires) but they are true race pads. I have to be on the brakes longer to drop speeds on these tires but I've had instructors running them on 350z's with 275 V710's that can also lock them up easily. Overkill for my tires but it's what I needed for heat. I had fried the dust seal on the older calipers and replaced them but no damage to the inner seal yet. Someone needs to offer a hi-temp silicone seal for the calipers, maybe that would help?

I still think the stock brakes pretty capable but I'm not on R's yet and probably don't have the same power you do.
Brian

i forget which ones i had the reds i think, im switching to carbotechs this year. it depends heavily on what tracks you run. putnam and midohio both have hard braking sections which use the brakes heavily. i might try those st41s if you really think they are handleing the heat ok.

tried to find somewhere that sold those raebestos st41 pads and i cant find anywhere, the only place i found said they were 210 dollars for a set where do you get yours and or what is the part number

 

[tekdeus]

Duct our not, the stock brakes just won't cut it. Plus, a spinning rotor is essentially it's own fan, and pulls a whack of fresh air in through the center and throws it out the edges. Not sure if a duct would make much of a difference.

 

[prsrcokr]

That's a matter of opinion I guess, the stock pads don't cut it on track but the stock brake system is fine. I'm able to catch faster cars in brake zones on stock calipers and rotors, some case with less tire. You also can't beat on brakes on the street for the same effect as the track. Long straights help cool the brakes, you're rarely ever stopping from 100+ to zero (unless something's happened), race pads don't erode at 8-900 deg. like street pads. Any good pad can lock up most tires, you need one that can take the heat you're seeing.

Guru, try calling Porterfield direct or Geoff Mohler at Speedtoys. There's a NASA member discount. Geoff gets these cut for the mk3 in any Raybestos formula. I did 3 events on the current set and still have one left. Didn't bed them properly so I'd expect the next set to last longer.

Brian

 

[supraguru05]

Duct our not, the stock brakes just won't cut it. Plus, a spinning rotor is essentially it's own fan, and pulls a whack of fresh air in through the center and throws it out the edges. Not sure if a duct would make much of a difference.

the stock brakes are fine, i am able to outbrake most cars on the track with upgraded pads, and brake ducts make a MASSIVE difference. would you rather your turbo such in air that is static or suck in are that is flowing. im cutting really good times at putnam and mid ohio on stock brakes. the 6 race weekends ive done, and 5 years of autocross are proof that the stock brakes are more than capable if used fully, im looking at running 6 nasa weekends this year alone

thanks for the information pscorkr ill give them a call. looks like the best spot to put the ducts is right where the factory inlet is in the dust cover, im going to weld in a steel duct onto the shield that directs the air toward the center and call it done.

also if you want to switch pads the carbotechs are around 100 dollars a set and they have a ton of compounds, im going to make my decision between carbotech or the raebestos pads this week

 

[supraguru05]

update: cost of the pads is 180-200 he has to double check although he said they should last all season. currently i am replacing a set of 70 dollar pads every weekend and with 6 weekends this year they pay for themselves. kinda sucks how much they cost but i dont have a choice. im going to run regular ceramics in the rear. also looking into ducts for the rear with possible naca ducts in the rear quarter windows

 

[Van]

So, Saturday I went out to the pre-season Tech Inspection for SCCA and due to the numerous non-stock upgrades on my Supra, I'm classified into ITE, a catch all group (run what you bring). I was told by two techs there I'll run with the likes of last seasons, regional points winner, a supercharged S2000 making 400WHP at 2100+Lbs, or an EVO IX at more than 400WHP w/carbon fibre body panels at 2500+Lbs, then Big muscle ZO6s and 911 turbos, etc, etc, etc. :nuts:
None-the-less, I'm still going through w/the plans to place cooling ducts on the brakes, and try to be competitive. Van

 

[toy fanatic78]

So, Saturday I went out to the pre-season Tech Inspection for SCCA and due to the numerous non-stock upgrades on my Supra, I'm classified into ITE, a catch all group (run what you bring). I was told by two techs there I'll run with the likes of last seasons, regional points winner, a supercharged S2000 making 400WHP at 2100+Lbs, or an EVO IX at more than 400WHP w/carbon fibre body panels at 2500+Lbs, then Big muscle ZO6s and 911 turbos, etc, etc, etc. :nuts:
None-the-less, I'm still going through w/the plans to place cooling ducts on the brakes, and try to be competitive. Van

That sucks they put you in that class,good luck.

 

[IJ.]

This is one of the things that slows me down putting mine on the track is where I'll end up class wise due to the mods....

Think I might limit it to club sprints and a few hill climbs and be content as it's NOT a race car.

 

[Clip]

would switching from porterfield r4s to r4 pads make a difference? i'm running r4s pads on my car, chosen because i'd read the r4 pads had a slightly different heat range for track duty.

 

[Van]

Yes, they were helpful, but I found them lacking for how I brake and I tend to trail brake, so I'm moving to R4-1, which are closer to how hot my calipers get (I used heat sensing paint to aid in my decision). I'll try those along with the ducting. Van

would switching from porterfield r4s to r4 pads make a difference? i'm running r4s pads on my car, chosen because i'd read the r4 pads had a slightly different heat range for track duty.

 

[Supra469]

Anyone successfullly got any ducts setup and working yet?

 

[Van]

No, I ran into a problem. One caused from not planning this cars set-up, but rather doing it piece meal. The cold air intake mod I have in place, coupled with how I routed the inter-cooler pipes, is getting in the way of fitting the NACA ducts, so I now need to reroute the inter-cooler pipes. It'll be another two weeks before I can get time to spend on the car and get those brake ducts finished.
Oh, by the way; the calipers on my Supra are Mitsubishi! Go figure... Van

Anyone successfullly got any ducts setup and working yet?

 

[supraguru05]

Anyone successfullly got any ducts setup and working yet?

im really close to starting on them, between tests and the interior work im doing im still a little out

I need to read up on ITE sounds like a class I could run my car in that might be comparable to a nasa class

 

[MK3.0dudeman]

I have been dying to make some custom ones.I'm going to make cones out of bondo(or if anyone has a better idea)to fit the contor of the fog light openings.I will bolt them in but to clean things up nicely I want to take sheet metal to go over the cone to smooth things out and than have it flared out and than rivit it to the bumper and at the other end have hoses go to the brakes.This may not seem good looking to some from reading this but if you saw what in my head you would love it.Hopefully I will have this done one day.I will do it tho.


So dose anybody have any idea on were the duct should face the brakes and were should I connet the duct?

 

[supraguru05]

I have been dying to make some custom ones.I'm going to make cones out of bondo(or if anyone has a better idea)to fit the contor of the fog light openings.I will bolt them in but to clean things up nicely I want to take sheet metal to go over the cone to smooth things out and than have it flared out and than rivit it to the bumper and at the other end have hoses go to the brakes.This may not seem good looking to some from reading this but if you saw what in my head you would love it.Hopefully I will have this done one day.I will do it tho.


So dose anybody have any idea on were the duct should face the brakes and were should I connet the duct?

look here for cheap premade inlets

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?t...ontrol&form_cat_id=167,49,363&action=category

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/advcat.asp?CategoryID=BRAKEDUCT


and the duct should aim toward the center of the rotor so it can be pumped thru the rotor by the veins.

 

[Sawbladz]

So, Saturday I went out to the pre-season Tech Inspection for SCCA and due to the numerous non-stock upgrades on my Supra, I'm classified into ITE, a catch all group (run what you bring). I was told by two techs there I'll run with the likes of last seasons, regional points winner, a supercharged S2000 making 400WHP at 2100+Lbs, or an EVO IX at more than 400WHP w/carbon fibre body panels at 2500+Lbs, then Big muscle ZO6s and 911 turbos, etc, etc, etc. :nuts:
None-the-less, I'm still going through w/the plans to place cooling ducts on the brakes, and try to be competitive. Van

I have the same problem. Either I pull off my boost controller and run against modded Evo's and WRX's, or I run with the Z06's and Porsche's. It sucks because I am more than a little competitive and I hate being put at such a disadvantage.

 

[prsrcokr]

Here's an update with the ducts I added to my car. I removed the foglights and brackets to leave open holes. Tried a couple pre-made ducts but none would quite fit even with cutting. The holes in the 87-88 bumper are roughly 5.5x2.75 so 3" hose won't fit and most available ducts have an opening for 3" hose. Other problem as Van mentioned is the IC pipe being in the way on the PS side if you still have a crossover IC piping route. I decided to make a duct from sheet metal and offset the inlet to the outside of the foglight opening so I could squeeze the hose past the IC pipe.

Parts I used; 2.5 Al. flanges (from aircraft shop), 2.5" 500 deg. duct hose (race/aircraft shop), light gauge sheet metal, factory foglight bolts
I bent the sheet metal to create boxes to fit around the foglight openings. Then added the flanges to the middle portion of the box face. Not a true chamfered duct shape that necks down to collect air, more like an HVAC duct shape. I didn't have much time to make these between events, maybe I can improve them to collect better in the future.

Pics:


Showing location of opening in duct on PS, IC pipe can be seen through opening


Duct on DS


Al. flange placed into hole cut in factory dust shield vent location. It's not the ideal spot which would be the center of the spindle to pull air from the center out but this is the best location I found. May be able to use the area near the ABS sensor but I wanted to avoid the sensor and only have one opening so all air is directed through it. I cut the edges and bent them down to better match the dust shield and avoid contact with rotor.


Back side of dust shield with flange sticking through. A 3" flange & hose may be able to squeeze in but the 2.5" I'm using gets slightly pinched by the endlink when front suspension is compressed.


Rear of duct shown with attached 2.5" hose (yes I need a new bumper, sponsors? )


Routing of hose to inlet on dust shield. Added duct tape to hose where slack is hanging from frame to minimize tearing. Need to make sure full movement is accounted for with slack in hose. Secured to flanges with 2.5" screw clamps.

Impressions:

See ya shelby!
I put 15 sessions (25-30 min.) on the front pads but only half were with the ducts and the other half were 95 deg. days. I was much faster the last 2 events being on RA-1s so it's hard to say how much this helped. I did get some odd wear last weekend (45-60 deg.) which cause me to bend the top end of the inside pad backing plate on each side of the car. I'm wondering if it was concentrating too much air to one end of the pad being so cool out. Maybe blocking off the ducts in cool weather is a good idea with this compound, I'll ask the vendor. Overall, no fade on the stock brake system, fluid did not look as dirty after sessions as it did prior to the ducts. I've had instructors ride with me that say I've got great brakes, these guys were driving 240's and FD Rx7's.

Brian

Thanks,
Brian

 

[supraguru05]

my front brake ducts are 3 inch and i was still having 400F + degree caliper temps with front rotor temps at a more reasonable 900-1000F. im going to look at possibly switching to 4 inch or dual 3 inch feeds with one onto the caliper to reduce temperatures this winter