fresh GTE swap, no start

[89turborunner]

I finally got my swap finished to point where I can start it, and it wont start.

Details - all stck 89 7MGTE, ran when pulled from car, rebuilt, installed in 4runner. Original ECU+harness.

I have no fuel or spark. I have checked for power with the ignition set to "ON" at the following terminals on the ECU:

+B, +B1: both of these have power from the EFI relay (12v)
Batt: always hot (12v)
IG sw: on when the ignition is on (12v)
E01, E2, E1, E2: all grounded

When I turn on the ignotion to run, the EFI main relay closes, and the fuel pump turns on. The fuel pump stays on until I turn off the ignition. The fuel pump will also turn on with the EFI relay removed, if the starter is engaged (so both methods for turning on the fuel pump are functioning). I have fuel pressure at the rail.

The CEL illuminates when I have the ignition set to "RUN", and turns off while I am cranking. The engine cranks normal (sounds like it has compression). I did a compression test on cylinders 1 and 4, and both are at about 100PSI (keep in mind the engine is at 25 degrees F and has not had the rings seated).

The coil packs and engine block are grounded, and the coil packs are plugged in.

2 questions- is 100PSI ok for an engine that has not had the rings seated and is cold? What should I check next?

 

[89turborunner]

Checked codes, 14 and 51.

code 14 is igniter/ignition coil/ECU
code 51 is not a valid code, but I checked it like 7 times. It is 51.

 

[Quin]

51, dunno if it applies to Supras but I don't see why not, I just googled check engine light code toyota. Are you using a manual ECU?

Check to make sure your coil pack is plugged in, then start checking voltage at the coils.

Check your injector clips, after 20 years they get pretty brittle.

SWITCH SIGNALS

IDL (tps) CONTACTS OFF, NEUTRAL START SWITCH OFF, A/C SWITCH "ON" SIGNAL TO ECU

WITH DIAGNOSTIC CHECK CONNECTOR SHORTED

--A/C SWITCH/CIRCUIT

--A/C AMPLIFIER

--TPS/CIRCUIT

--NEUTRAL START SWITCH/CIRCUIT

--ECU

 

[89turborunner]

51, dunno if it applies to Supras but I don't see why not, I just googled check engine light code toyota. Are you using a manual ECU?

Check to make sure your coil pack is plugged in, then start checking voltage at the coils.

Check your injector clips, after 20 years they get pretty brittle.

SWITCH SIGNALS

IDL (tps) CONTACTS OFF, NEUTRAL START SWITCH OFF, A/C SWITCH "ON" SIGNAL TO ECU

WITH DIAGNOSTIC CHECK CONNECTOR SHORTED

--A/C SWITCH/CIRCUIT

--A/C AMPLIFIER

--TPS/CIRCUIT

--NEUTRAL START SWITCH/CIRCUIT

--ECU

I don't know what this message means from "SWITCH SIGNALS" on....

The engine will crank, so I am sure the clutch switch is working, I don't have AC, engines will run with the TPS unplugged... please let me know what you listed all that stuff for.

I am currently going though and testing all the ignition components as per the TSRM. THere is 12.2V supplied to all 3 coils, and 12.2v supplied to the ignitor. The ignitor has .2 ohms resistance to ground (TSRM said to make sure it was grounded).

Injector clips were mostly fine when I plugged them in last month. One has a broken clip, but is still maintaining connectivity.

The coils are all plugged in.

ECU is a manual (so was the donor car, so is the new chassis).
anything else?

EDIT: CPS coils are all at 156+/-1 ohm spec is 140 to 180 ohm.

 

[jetjock]

The fuel pump should not run until the key is held to start. It will not continue to run once the key is released unless the engine fires.

51 is a valid code but won't keep the engine from starting. There's enough on this site about it to choke a goat.

14 will prevent the engine from starting and means you have no spark or spark but no confirmation of it back to the ECU. Check the igniter, 12 volt supply to the coil packs, and the coil pack harness. Also check the CPS. When you say the igniter is grounded you mean it's case right? It's bolted down?

Does the tach flicker when cranking?

edit: As long as you have 14 you will not get injection because the ECU prevents it until receiving confirmation of spark.

It goes like this: 1) CPS talks to ECU, 2) ECU talks to igniter (signal IGt and coil selection lines), 3) igniter talks to coils (grounds selected coil), 4) plug fires and igniter sends back confirmation to ECU on line IGf.

Based on your other checks (my compliments on them btw) it has to be something along those paths. Rather than cranking I suggest you remove the CPS and spin it by hand until you get it figured out...

 

[89turborunner]

The fuel pump should not run until the key is held to start. It will not continue to run once the key is released unless the engine fires.

51 is a valid code but won't keep the engine from starting. There's enough on this site about it to choke a goat.

14 will prevent the engine from starting and means you have no spark or spark but no confirmation of it back to the ECU. Check the igniter, 12 volt supply to the coil packs, and the coil pack harness. Also check the CPS. When you say the igniter is grounded you mean it's case right? It's bolted down?

Does the tach flicker when cranking?

I got the code 51 does not exhist info from this TRRM:http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx

I will do some searching to find out what a code 51 is.

My ignitor is rubber insulated from the inner fender for vibratory protection, but I have a ground wire going from it to the chassis (resistance to the engine block is .2 ohm).

what do you mean by "check the coil pack harnesses"? I checked the supply voltage.

My tach does not flicker when I crank the engine, but I am using a toyota 3VZ tach, which is known NOT to work with a 7MGTE. There is a method for making them compatible, which was guess-and-check derived. I followed the successful method that someone else used, which is to replace a resistor on the tach driver board with one of a smaller value, since the signal from distributorless ignition systems is weaker. from: http://www.intellivationdesign.com/4Runner/4Runner.htm

EDIT: In response to JJs edit, removed repeated information

EDIT2: The fuel pump no longer stays on with the ignition, that was only taking place before the ECU had power (EFI relay removed).

 

[slidebabyslide]

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/TechTips/engine_error_codes.aspx

 

[jetjock]

I'm confused. Too many edits

It sounds as if you're on top of it. As I said you may want to pull the CPS and spin it manually with a plug out and grounded then go from there. Saves wear and tear on the battery and starter.

Treat it as an ignition only problem and worry about everything else (timing, fuel, etc) after you get spark. Let us know what you find. I'm always interested when someone with apparent smarts gets a little stumped

 

[89turborunner]

It's alive. I was doing a somewhat thorough diagnosis after I found the code 14, and the ONLY thing I did was make a series of checks, and install a ground wire to ground the case of the ignitor (it was not very well grounded before, if at all).

My tach is not working, and it sounds like it is running pretty fast without any throttle input, so I cannot comment on how well it runs... seems smooth. Very loud (I have a 3.5" diesel exhaust and muffler with no cat, and a 3.5" downpipe).

The oil pressure is at 75PSI (on autometer gauge). But this is at the elevated RPM (wish I had a diagnostic tach!)

 

[89turborunner]

I'm confused. Too many edits

It sounds as if you're on top of it. As I said you may want to pull the CPS and spin it manually with a plug out and grounded then go from there. Saves wear and tear on the battery and starter.

Treat it as an ignition only problem and worry about everything else (timing, fuel, etc) after you get spark. Let us know what you find. I'm always interested when someone with apparent smarts gets a little stumped

well thanks for the kind words : )

It seems to want to "run away" when I start it. Can ignition timing cause this?

Also, cleared codes, only code 51 now (I don't have AC, and I believe the diagnostics is letting me know).

 

[jetjock]

Aha, the old igniter not grounded trick bites again. You'll need to fix code 51 before expecting a controlled idle. Nothing more than being sure IDL is grounded in the TPS with the throttle closed. Without it the idle speed control system (and some other things) isn't enabled. See the write up in the electrical section for a detailed explanation or refer to the TRSM for setting procedures.

edit: No real need to vibration isolate the igniter since it's encapsulated. Solid block of plastic inside. You might want to further improve the grounding by doing the mod mentioned in the electrical and tech tips section though.

 

[89turborunner]

Well I messed with the timing a bit. No longer sounds like 12 to 1 compression... I need to find a timing light to bowwow.

Thanks for the help guys... I am going to time it another day. I need some dinner:naughty: