Fog light Shield removal ??
- Thread starter Twigger
- Start date
yes, but your forgetting they're really "blinders" which stops direct light from the bulb from shining out.
you WILL blind oncoming drivers if you install HID's in a fog lamp thus modified, with mine out I light up trees above my car with my fog lamps, and I will be fabricating new blinders for the HID's...
you WILL blind oncoming drivers if you install HID's in a fog lamp thus modified, with mine out I light up trees above my car with my fog lamps, and I will be fabricating new blinders for the HID's...
Poodles said:
As soon as I can get a decent camera I will take some pictures, mine dont really shine any higher than before. I find that HID headlights are way worse for oncoming drivers than foglights that are aimed straight ahead at a level that is below that of the bumper.
wow. i'll just say that i agree 100% with keith. he knows what he's talking about, and yes, i'm sure that he's actually examined many, many different lights. (he's actually on a lighting quest).
keith, keep it up, man.
-shaeff
keith, keep it up, man.
-shaeff
Twigger - What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?
You sound like you want better lighting but you are monkeying around with something that is not designed to do what you want.
To me it sounds like you want to drive around full time without putting your headlights up - this is the only reason you would even notice that the foglights do not put out adequate lighting for nighttime driving (duh since this is not what they were designed for).
Invest in a good set of Hella H4 lenses and put a quality H4 bulb in there (you do get what you pay for here) and you won't even notice that you need the Foglights on.
shaeff is correct. I've been working on a headlight project for 7 years now (it has to be perfect). I've done so much research on lighting it would make your head swim. Now that my Supra isn't used for DD duties I can make better progress on the lighting.
You sound like you want better lighting but you are monkeying around with something that is not designed to do what you want.
To me it sounds like you want to drive around full time without putting your headlights up - this is the only reason you would even notice that the foglights do not put out adequate lighting for nighttime driving (duh since this is not what they were designed for).
Invest in a good set of Hella H4 lenses and put a quality H4 bulb in there (you do get what you pay for here) and you won't even notice that you need the Foglights on.
shaeff is correct. I've been working on a headlight project for 7 years now (it has to be perfect). I've done so much research on lighting it would make your head swim. Now that my Supra isn't used for DD duties I can make better progress on the lighting.
KeithH said:
Actually they are doing exactly what I want. Have you tried it or known anyone who has?
They are helping the low beams with normal night time driving where it is not aimed at oncoming drivers. When on backroads it fills in the area underneath the highbeams where the highbeams do not reach so well. You tell me that these will only blind oncoming drivers yet you speak of putting in H4 lighting which I know will blind drivers wether they are on high or low beam. These lights are doing exactly what they were intended to do and that is assist the headlights. Seems to me you are being some what hypocrytical.:stickpoke
Woah! What I said was "get a good set of headlights". You know the H4 ones. You do know that the stock headlights in a MkIII Supra are H4 (they are simply sealed beams rather than the open style where you can just replace the bulb instead of replacing the entire lens). Also please notice the careful selection of the word "good" in the statement. Do not get those cheezy diamond ebay lenses. By good I mean Hella. H4 lenses/bulbs have been designed and used for decades and properly adjusted only the high beams will blind oncoming traffic (but you really should dim your lights for the oncoming traffic anyway).
With a quality headlight you will only notice that the "fog lights" fill in the area just below and to the sides of where the headlights project when the lows are on - eliminating the need for more light out of the fog lights themselves.
Also, running a quality lense and bulb combination will improve your high-beam range and fill too. I can see where the foglights will fill in the areas below and to the sides of the high beams (as it does the same for the low beams). Remember that Toyota did not let you run highs and fogs at the same time from the factory.
Who are you going to trust on this? The guys that design lighting for a living? or some guy that just thinks "hey this might be a keen idea"? I don't know about you but the professionals have done countless hours of testing on lighting and know what they are doing. Other than your "seat of the pants" testing, how much real testing have you done?
Not trying to bash you in any way. Just want to make sure that if you show up at the PacNW Supra Nationals this year you don't blind me while I am driving in front of you and cause me to crash my baby (or someone else for that matter). I'm also looking out for your wallet as those tickets aren't cheap + you have to spend more money to replace those fog lights that you ripped apart.
I'm going to throw out there another question that I've asked in some of the other threads.
If you saw a set of brake pads that looked totally killer and you knew that installing them behind those great white 17" 5 spoke rims would look DAMN SEXY (and we're talking women would have sex with you just because you have these brake pads - honestly it is there in the fine print - heck they will even install them for you... NEKID!) - but you knew they were made out of cardboard - would you get them and install them? This is a safety issue. Leave the lighting design to the professionals.
With a quality headlight you will only notice that the "fog lights" fill in the area just below and to the sides of where the headlights project when the lows are on - eliminating the need for more light out of the fog lights themselves.
Also, running a quality lense and bulb combination will improve your high-beam range and fill too. I can see where the foglights will fill in the areas below and to the sides of the high beams (as it does the same for the low beams). Remember that Toyota did not let you run highs and fogs at the same time from the factory.
Who are you going to trust on this? The guys that design lighting for a living? or some guy that just thinks "hey this might be a keen idea"? I don't know about you but the professionals have done countless hours of testing on lighting and know what they are doing. Other than your "seat of the pants" testing, how much real testing have you done?
Not trying to bash you in any way. Just want to make sure that if you show up at the PacNW Supra Nationals this year you don't blind me while I am driving in front of you and cause me to crash my baby (or someone else for that matter). I'm also looking out for your wallet as those tickets aren't cheap + you have to spend more money to replace those fog lights that you ripped apart.
I'm going to throw out there another question that I've asked in some of the other threads.
If you saw a set of brake pads that looked totally killer and you knew that installing them behind those great white 17" 5 spoke rims would look DAMN SEXY (and we're talking women would have sex with you just because you have these brake pads - honestly it is there in the fine print - heck they will even install them for you... NEKID!) - but you knew they were made out of cardboard - would you get them and install them? This is a safety issue. Leave the lighting design to the professionals.
Keith, do you know about Danielsternlighting.com? I followed his advise four years ago and never had another lighting problem. I have E-code hella's with European silverstars, (actually a osram bulb) standard wattage. I have 100 watt osram bulbs in my fog lights, but I never use them because I never need them. I have all the great light without getting high-beamed from pissed off drivers. Aiming correctly is important and bright light and white light does'nt mean good light. You are right on all counts. I forgot to mention, check the voltage at the lamps. A small voltage drop at the bulbs affect brightness alot. I had about .5 volt loss at my lamps. I could make that better with a relay but I personally don't think it's needed for me.
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That site is full of such GREAT information. I have spent countless hours studying it.
www.danielsternlighting.com
www.danielsternlighting.com
Ditto. It's astounding how much of a difference just the rewire can make.
Twigger, there are two parts to lighting: emission and direction. Producing tons of light only helps if it's going where you need it and having the light go where you need it only helps if you're producing enough light.
Personally, I would have rewired my fogs to make sure the bulbs aren't just underpowered to start with. Then I would have looked into getting the housings refinished and chroming the shield. Failing those, it's time for research and possibly a different lighting solution.
You're giving the lens on our fog lights too much credit. The lenses are corrugated to spread the light out, they're hardly convex and even if they were they're still not spots.
Fog lights are only an effective supplement at low speeds. At anything above 30 - 40 MPH the average human reaction time is too slow for them to make any difference.
Twigger, there are two parts to lighting: emission and direction. Producing tons of light only helps if it's going where you need it and having the light go where you need it only helps if you're producing enough light.
Personally, I would have rewired my fogs to make sure the bulbs aren't just underpowered to start with. Then I would have looked into getting the housings refinished and chroming the shield. Failing those, it's time for research and possibly a different lighting solution.
You're giving the lens on our fog lights too much credit. The lenses are corrugated to spread the light out, they're hardly convex and even if they were they're still not spots.
Fog lights are only an effective supplement at low speeds. At anything above 30 - 40 MPH the average human reaction time is too slow for them to make any difference.
Thanks for standing with me guys.
Rewire your headlights - http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html
Fog Light Info - http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html
Converting to HID - http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
Rewire your headlights - http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html
Fog Light Info - http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html
Converting to HID - http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
Hella E-code housings are worth every single penny they cost, I have them myself, and once the HID's are in them they won't blind people like the cheap H4 housings...
I don't need my fog lamps on with my E-codes, but I do anyways for the coolness factor (they're ALWAYS on)
if I could get some good pictures of what the e-code housings do, and why removing the baffle in the fog lamps is bad (I regret doing it and have since lost the baffle pieces), I would, I'll try with a good camera to get it soon...
I don't need my fog lamps on with my E-codes, but I do anyways for the coolness factor (they're ALWAYS on)
if I could get some good pictures of what the e-code housings do, and why removing the baffle in the fog lamps is bad (I regret doing it and have since lost the baffle pieces), I would, I'll try with a good camera to get it soon...
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Say what you want, if you have nicer housing then of course they are going to project better which in turn causes them to send more light into oncoming drivers. You simply cant have better lighting with out it shining at oncoming drivers. Yes of course I would be happier with some Hella lights or whatever, but I have financial priorities that don’t allow me to drop the big bucks on lights. Yes the glare on the fog lights is more than before but it is still not as bad as the low beams. Toyota set the stock fog lights up to supplement the low beams in fog, all I did was set it up so that I can aid the headlights when aimed right. These lights are simply not bright enough to blind drivers. Soon as I can make it by my parents house again to take pictures with a decent camera you all can see for yourselves what I am talking about. Those were good articles where most of the information applies to most applications but not all.
Twigger said:
This is actually not true. The E-code lights have a cleaner cut-off than the standard sealed bulbs. Those nicer lenses are actually keeping more light from blinding the oncoming drivers due to the... wait for it... "SHIELD!" You know that thing you removed from your fog light? This shield actually prevents light from exiting part of the headlight and blinding the oncoming traffic. The shield in the foglight does the same thing.
Actually... according to the professionals you shouldn't run your foglights all the time at night anyway. Why you ask? They say that it can actually decrease your night vision. WOAH! Fog Lights were designed to help cut "UNDER" foul weather like fog - hence the name. It really is cool what you can find on the Internet these days.
I run my fogs as Daytime Running Lights - to make myself a bit more visible - yes even during the daylight hours. I have no real need for fog lights at night with my upgraded optics - and no... I'm not even running 100w bulbs.
I was unaware that you drove in a straight line. Only time I get blinded is when someone comes around a corner and nails me with their nice clean cutoff lights. Or their nice clean cutoff lights angle up from my mirrors from behind and blind me.
Like I stated in my other post, the stock fogs lights are not really effective in the fog, you havnt tried this mod so stop acting like you have. In fact I will go take some pictures of the glare on the lights.
Like CRE said, "The lenses are corrugated to spread the light out, ..."
Mind you the corrugation runs up and down the lense, with brighter bulbs and no blinders it spread them out to the sides and allows it to go straight forwards.
Like I stated in my other post, the stock fogs lights are not really effective in the fog, you havnt tried this mod so stop acting like you have. In fact I will go take some pictures of the glare on the lights.
Like CRE said, "The lenses are corrugated to spread the light out, ..."
Mind you the corrugation runs up and down the lense, with brighter bulbs and no blinders it spread them out to the sides and allows it to go straight forwards.
As long as we use any lights on the road there will always be times where our lights will be shining directly into the eyes of the oncoming traffic (another example is when I am coming up to the top of a hill and so is the oncoming traffic).
I'll stop acting like I've tried this mod when you stop acting like you know more than the professionals that designed the lights and put that shield in there for a good reason.
There are WAY better (and safer) ways to improve your lighting.
I'll stop acting like I've tried this mod when you stop acting like you know more than the professionals that designed the lights and put that shield in there for a good reason.
There are WAY better (and safer) ways to improve your lighting.
I HAVE this mod done, don't do it, the fog light will BLIND you in fog now (yes this sucks BAD)
Your headlights are considered SAFETY EQUIPMENT, don't skimp on it or it will bite you in the ass...
Your headlights are considered SAFETY EQUIPMENT, don't skimp on it or it will bite you in the ass...
Okay I dont know more than the professionals, I did not blind any of my friends when driving around them for a half hour yesterday and the two cops that I drove by yesterday didnt give a shit about my lights. Now let me whip a bunch of money out of my ass so I can go buy some good lights. Fog lights wern't all the useful in the fog in the first place so I am not too worried about it.
KeithH said:
Yes!:naughty: :boobies: I would run the cardboard pads:boink: ....and drive extremely slow!!!! LOL!!!:biglaugh:
Twigger said:
*sigh*, the E-code housings aren't THAT expensive, and in the longrun, they're cheaper than any sealed beam setup.
talking about blinding YOU, I don't piss off any cops or drivers (though I may with 6000K HID's in em).
Trust me, the BEST enhancement you can reasonably do is get Hella E-code housings. Instead of 2 bright spots that don't show enough for you to avoid that idiot on the side of the road, or when you're coming around a corner, you'll have a nice wide low beam that doesn't blind oncoming traffic with glare like normal DOT lights (DOT is a joke IMHO, Europe has had superior safety for years).