finally!!! i can weld aluminum from home

[IJ.]

AC/DC just changes the heat focus, with Al you need the heat at the work and not at the Tungsten.
(this is my understanding of the issue, not forgetting the cleaning action of the AC current on the Al oxide)

 

[Dimman]

^ I think that is the DCEP (DC electrode positive) /DCEN (DC electrode negative) difference. But I'm not the welder. I was looking at a Tig for home and got excited when I saw the Miller Maxstar specs (and price). I asked him about it, and he said since it's DC only, I couldn't do aluminum. I'm learning on steel, but haven't done aluminum yet.

 

[IJ.]

I'm still learning the fine points of TIG, had my machine a lot of years now and got some good info/help from Ron R early on but I just don't get the hours with it to be "good".

My Welds are structurally sound but can't be called "pretty"

 

[jetjock]

You guys are basicaly right. When using AC on aluminum the positive portion of the waveform provides ion bombarment for removing the surface oxide, equivelent to DCEP. The negative portion provides penetration from electron flow and is equivalent to DCEN.

Adjusting the duty cycle (wave balance) on a square wave machine allows one to change the proportion of cleaning versus penetration. The more the waveform is EP the more heat will be put into the electrode as ion bombardment is now greater at the tungsten. Go too far and current, along with electrode diameter, will need to be increased. There's a bit more to it but those are the basics.

"Protect the metal"? I have no idea where that came from...

 

[Dimman]

You guys are basicaly right. When using AC on aluminum the positive portion of the waveform provides ion bombarment for removing the surface oxide, equivelent to DCEP. The negative portion provides penetration from electron flow and is equivalent to DCEN.

Adjusting the duty cycle (wave balance) on a square wave machine allows one to change the proportion of cleaning versus penetration. The more the waveform is EP the more heat will be put into the electrode as ion bombardment is now greater at the tungsten. Go too far and current, along with electrode diameter, will need to be increased. There's a bit more to it but those are the basics.

"Protect the metal"? I have no idea where that came from...

Maybe he's talking about the cleaning effect you mentioned? Cause if he's confusing shielding gas with current types he's got some bigger problems...

 

[toyolla86]

dimmam: awesome welds on those pieces. i plan to get that good one day. haha.

what im talking about is exactly what you guys said. half of the ac waveform is heat and the other half is cleaning. so with dc if you use only the heat side of the wave DCEN when you will need something to shield the puddle and electrode properly. from what i've heard argon will not do this alone. thus why i run 70/30 helium/argon.
i have not tested the argon theory; tho i would like to because argon is much cheaper.

this is the old school method that was first discovered before AC was widely used.

 

[jetjock]

...if you use only the heat side of the wave DCEN when you will need something to shield the puddle and electrode properly...

Sorry, no. You really need to do more research...

 

[toyolla86]

well all i know is it works. and im only using DC. so, anyways besides that. ill post up pics of my progress. dont know when i will get back to trying it out again. its usually a while between my welding sessions with mine and my wife's school schedules.

and i did do research. i've done research for years. the guy that does the video's that was posted earlier (i believe) is the one that i learned why dc will work and why ac works.

alternating current when the electrons flow one way they are heating when they flow the other way they are cleaning. as stated earlier. (im not sure which one does which cause i watched that video a long time ago)


either way this argument is moot cause im welding aluminum with DC. bet you want to argue with me on how i weld AL with OA too. maybe you need to do your research. give me your email. ill send you the pdf. so you can do some research. hows that.

 

[Dimman]

well all i know is it works. and im only using DC. so, anyways besides that. ill post up pics of my progress. dont know when i will get back to trying it out again. its usually a while between my welding sessions with mine and my wife's school schedules.

and i did do research. i've done research for years. the guy that does the video's that was posted earlier (i believe) is the one that i learned why dc will work and why ac works.

alternating current when the electrons flow one way they are heating when they flow the other way they are cleaning. as stated earlier. (im not sure which one does which cause i watched that video a long time ago)


either way this argument is moot cause im welding aluminum with DC. bet you want to argue with me on how i weld AL with OA too. maybe you need to do your research. give me your email. ill send you the pdf. so you can do some research. hows that.

I personally don't know enough to call you completely wrong on the DC aluminum welding. I know that TIG/GTAW is a very old process and it's possible that way back in the 'Heliarc' days it could have been done with DC. But these days it is not the case. You will be fighting an uphill battle. I've heard that helium for shielding is a bit of a nightmare for arc starting/stability (but it's hotter).

You can probably save yourself a ton of headaches by getting an AC/DC machine.

If you have a look at Miller's site: http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/ you will see that the DC-only Tig machines are designated as suitable for steel only.

Probably not impossible, but the pics that I posted are done on a Miller Synchrowave 350LX, on AC. That is how it is done these days. I'm not going to argue with my buddy that 80 years ago it was possible to weld aluminum on DC, when every modern machine is setup to do aluminum on AC.

Maybe look for a used Diversion series machine, and you will save yourself a ton of time on the learning curve.

 

[IJ.]

Even my first TIG 25+ years ago was AC/DC and I optioned it up with a Pulse unit.

 

[jetjock]

I find it very odd someone whose done research for years would come up with some of what he says but he's correct the original Heliarc process was DC and used He as a shielding gas. I'm not saying it can't be done but rather than explain all that sucks about I'll settle for him showing us when he becomes successful.

As for gas welding aluminum sure, it can be done. It's not easy though. Maybe he'd like to show us some examples of his efforts with that...

 

[ae86ma70]

Anyone have any feedback on the Miller Diversion 165? Been wanting to buy a machine to teach myself on, but have held off because of the price of TIG equipment. I don't want to attempt welding AL without a TIG machine (even though others have clearly done it without an AC setup), and want a rig that is versatile. Anyone know of any comparable (read = cheaper) alternatives?

Miller Diversion 165

 

[toyolla86]

^ this is why i went the route i did. a good tig costs 1500 (used) and 2000+ new.

so when youre working on a budget you have to figure out different ways.
and as i have witnessed via this website those different ways have been lost and forgotten.

 

[jetjock]

Not lost but there's good reasons they've been forgotten. You're going to find out why.

ae86: That's the updated version of Miller's Econo-Tig. Being inverter based it weighs a lot less than the older model. Although I've never used one it looks like a good no frills machine. No wave balance, adjustable freq, pulse, or slope but square wave (HF needed only for arc start) is a plus. At 150 amps and 20% duty it'll be good to learn on but limited to thin material. It also appears you'll need to buy a hand or foot control separately.

Anything Miller is good and for a beginner you could do worse. If I were you I'd be looking at something like a used Thermal Arc 185TSW. Too bad they don't make it any longer but I sometimes see them on Ebay and Craigs. In fact:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/tls/2226304663.html

Since I own a high end Thermal Arc I'm biased though. I can say one thing for sure: with that Miller you'll be doing nice work long before our pal with his DC rig. He might as well connect his torch to a car battery. (Lol, I've done that several times but only with steel. Works pretty well).

 

[IJ.]

200a Kemppi Inverter here with all the bells and whistles

 

[toyolla86]

welp had a little time today and it was nice out so i decided to give another go at it.

did a couple butt welds. still needs some practice.

then tried ONE thats 1 pass on some flat thin aluminum sheet.
heres the outcome. first and last try on flat aluminum sheet.

jetjock-thanks for the positivity throughout this whole thread. and the added vote of confidence there at the end.

---------- Post added at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

oh yeah this is the 2nd day of trying this welder out on aluminum and the 3rd try with any welder plugged into electricity.

 

[jetjock]

200a Kemppi Inverter here with all the bells and whistles

Thermal Arc 300GTSW with external pulse and sloping. Not the latest and greatest but does a fine job. I'm pointing this out only to show mine is bigger than yours

OP: You'll have to get up early than that to fool some of us...

 

[toyolla86]

OP: You'll have to get up early than that to fool some of us...

what????!!!!! hahahah i guess i should be flattered by that statement. both of these pics were taken by me today in the same 1 minute block. you can check up on my photobucket where i uploaded both pics. from the same camera. hahahahahaaha. wow!!!

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

and i even have an eye witness. my next door neighbor was there watching me and trying it out for himself. cause he didnt believe me either.

 

[ae86ma70]

Now, you know everyone wants you to make a video of it, right?

 

[jetjock]

Crack me up. I'm not saying you didn't do it. What I was referring to was none of it is welding. All we've seen so far is a couple of horrific butts (why would anyone even post those?) that are the result of either bad gear/parameters or someone who can't manipulate a tig torch. Since you claim to be so good at gas it can't be torch manipulation right?

And what's with the little bit of melt along the plate which, as I said, can be done with a car battery? I hope you're not planning on folks hitting you up for work after this fine display of arcin' and sparkin'.

None of it is welding Sparky. How's about showing us a fillet that looks anything like the melt? Even a butt would do. Not that pretty is important, something you should already know. They gotta be better than those sorry lookin' butts though.

Post up either of those coupons along with the model machine, how the surface was prepped, torch size, cup size, gas flow, polarity, and diameter/type of tungsten used. Or post a pic of the gear. And just for grins write your user name on the coupon because, you know, this is getting old...