Failed emissions Help!

[mackg@goodweb.org]

JJ - Thank you for your help! I am going to have a shop analyze the gas. I will be searching and researching about this topic as you have suggested.

Nick- yes

Hello all,
I am helping Turbofreak88 with his car and we found numerous vacuum hoses both unplugged and also routed incorrectly... I guess the people who replaced the headgasket were not too precise with the vacuum lines.. anyway, we corrected most of that (I thnk )but I have a question.. The sensor in the picture - A - is broken and I cannot determine what the part number is, or even what it's function is.. ( searching manuals, online etc for some reason I can't find it) can someone tell me? part number?

also what is the function of it and also of the part labeled B in the picture. Both seem to be water temp sensors but bart B is not connected to any wire!

please help ..
thanks so much.

 

[koulee]

A is the cold start injector switch
B is a water temp sensor, not the one that sends to the gauge

How is the CSI busted? the plastic clip busted? wires pulled out? I believe they are interchangeable between the 7mge and the 7mgte so just go cut off the clip from a junkyard car and splice it in. When its busted, starting the car will be somewhat hard.

I believe B sends the coolant temp signal to the ecu, but for what I can't remember

 

[jdub]

Koulee beat me to it...but, here's a little more info.

A - Is the Cold Start Injector Temp switch...if bad, it can make the cold start injector to stay open spraying excess fuel into the intake plenum causing a rich condition

B - Is the Aux Fan temp switch...should have no effect on emissions.

Take a look at the attachment

 

[mackg@goodweb.org]

A is the cold start injector switch
B is a water temp sensor, not the one that sends to the gauge

How is the CSI busted? the plastic clip busted? wires pulled out? I believe they are interchangeable between the 7mge and the 7mgte so just go cut off the clip from a junkyard car and splice it in. When its busted, starting the car will be somewhat hard.

I believe B sends the coolant temp signal to the ecu, but for what I can't remember

thanks.. the CSI is just broken off clean.. car starts ok though..
any idea what color the wire is that connects to the water temp sensor? there is a clip hanging close by, but the clip end does not match this male plug so I am trying to figure out where the correct wire is...

Yes, the car is new to us, so we are trying to fix some of these problems.

and thanks Jdub... so maybe the CSI is one of the problems with our "very rich" emissions problem
thanks

Also I finally found Bishop92T's webpage and there are great pictures there!!
thanks

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

I was looking for that picture jdub.

 

[mackg@goodweb.org]

I was looking for that picture jdub.

Ok great.. if we short this switch, will that essentially cause the cold start injector to "engage" or not engage... right now it's broken and the two wires are not connected.. ( trying to decide if this has any effect on our emissions )

thanks

 

[arz]

I believe that the sensor is a "SENSOR" not a switch, I think the value produced is used by the ECU to determine if you need the cold start circut. I dont believe it is a switch that turns on the cold start injector.

I would replace it just because this might fix some of your problem, and because it SHOULD be in working order. Having the ECU know what temp the motor is can only help you pass emissions.

 

[mackg@goodweb.org]

I believe that the sensor is a "SENSOR" not a switch, I think the value produced is used by the ECU to determine if you need the cold start circut. I dont believe it is a switch that turns on the cold start injector.

I would replace it just because this might fix some of your problem, and because it SHOULD be in working order. Having the ECU know what temp the motor is can only help you pass emissions.

right I plan on fixing it all.. the cold start injector switch is a switch I think ( by looking at the broken part... looks like a thermostat type switch that opens and shuts based on the temp... at least that's what it seems to me..

thanks

 

[jdub]

right I plan on fixing it all.. the cold start injector switch is a switch I think ( by looking at the broken part... looks like a thermostat type switch that opens and shuts based on the temp... at least that's what it seems to me..

thanks

That is correct...it is referred to in the TRSM electrical diagram as "Start Injector Time Switch. However, there is a feed from the ECU between this switch and the CSI. The ECU Temp Sensor is further down on the waterneck...it's ID'ed in the picture I posted.

 

[mackg@goodweb.org]

That is correct...it is a switch. At least that's what the TRSM electrical diagram refers to it as. The ECU Temp Sensor is further down on the waterneck...it's ID'ed in the picture I posted.

Right but when it is closed , does that turn "ON" the cold start injector or "OFF"...

anyone know?

 

[jdub]

Right but when it is closed , does that turn "ON" the cold start injector or "OFF"...

anyone know?

That I don't know...Here's the diagram from the TRSM if that helps.

 

[jetjock]

The TTS turns on the CSI when closed (cold coolant temp). The ECU also has control of the CSI. The TTS is not connected to the ECU in anyway, it gets power from the starter. And it's not a sensor, it's a switch that works on both time and temperature. Search for a better description of how it works, please don't make me 'splain it all again.

The TTS will have no effect on emissions. The CSI could if it's leaking. At least you repaired all the vacuum stuff...

 

[mackg@goodweb.org]

The TTS turns on the CSI when closed (cold coolant temp). The ECU also has control of the CSI. The TTS is not connected to the ECU in anyway, it gets power from the starter. And it's not a sensor, it's a switch that works on both time and temperature. Search for a better description of how it works, please don't make me 'splain it all again.

The TTS will have no effect on emissions. The CSI could if it's leaking. At least you repaired all the vacuum stuff...

JJ - I am sorry that I didn't find your previous post before I asked the question:icon_bigg ..
I did find it though and read your explaination.. thanks..

I definately need this switch... I will search the forum for a place to buy one.
thanks all!

 

[jetjock]

Ok, that was poorly worded. The ECU does have a connection to the TTS but it controls the CSI and not the TTS. It will not effect emissions. However if the CSI is mechanically leaking fuel the engine may run rich.

 

[jdub]

Ok, that was poorly worded. The ECU does have a connection to the TTS but it controls the CSI and not the TTS. It will not effect emissions. However if the CSI is mechanically leaking fuel the engine may run rich.

If the TSS is stuck closed (cold position), will it not cause the CSI to function and spray excess fuel into the intake manifold? The only reason I ask is the TRSM troubleshooting flow chart (at least on an '89) indicates the TSS as a possible cause for a rich condition.

 

[jetjock]

The TTS receives a ground from two places: 1) From the TTS and 2) from the ECU (STJ) when temps are very, very low. The ECU uses the coolant temp sensor to control it in that case. It just stretches the time out a bit beyond what the TTS is normally capable of. Otherwise the CSI is powered by the TTS sensing coolant temp directly and operates independently of the ECU.

Since the TTS gets power from the igntion switch start position (STA) and since this is the only source of +12 to the CSI it can only operate during cranking whether the ECU is active or not. Since the power is applied by the starter for *both* conditions (TTS control or ECU control) then no, there is no way the ECU can operate the CSI unless the engine is being cranked even if the TTS is stuck closed. The ECU may try and supply a ground to the CSI but without the +12 from the starter nothing will happen. So no, what you're suggesting is not possible.

If the coolant is hot the TTS won't activate the CSI to begin with. If coolant is cold and cranking continues beyond about 8 seconds the little heater coil integral to the TTS will heat up and shut it down. That's why it called a Thermo-Time Switch, it operates based on both coolant temp and cranking time. It's just a bi-metallic switch with an integral heater wrapped around it. Understand?

 

[jdub]

Yes I do understand JJ...thank you. The line from the "Ignition switch" in the diagram I posted threw me off. And as you know, I'm not the best in the world about reading these damn diagrams

 

[Nick M]

I was looking for that picture jdub.

In the thread for showing your engine bay, I have a large very bright high resolution photo, and others if you need them.

 

[jetjock]

Yes I do understand JJ...thank you. The line from the "Ignition switch" in the diagram I posted threw me off. And as you know, I'm not the best in the world about reading these damn diagrams

Lol, I'm not the best at remembering them off the top of my head. It's ok bud. I told ya, we're all dummies but don't let the public find out. And since I've just been privately accused of selling used motors for a living I must be a real idiot.

edit...OK, I cleaned that explanation up. Damn, I did end up 'splaining it all over again

 

[Aspec]

Great post guys. Lots of tasty info. Just one question. Since he has only had the car for a couple of months, would it be a good idea to pull the bottom hose off of the intercooler and see if he's got a couple of pints of oil stored up in there? It sounds like he's got a good handle on the vacuum and sensor issues but with emission levels that high a little "oil injection" would not be helping his situation. Let me know what you think.