Factor of safety on wheel

SideWinderGX

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Aug 8, 2007
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I have Q rated snow tires on the front of my Supra right now. Q rated tires are rated for 99 mph. They are undamaged tires with a little under half tread life left.



TECHNICALLY, is there a factor of safety on the speed ratings of tires? If there is ever a need for me to exceed the speed rating I want to be absolutely, positively sure the tires won't pop or stretch too far.



I read on here (or SF or something) that there is a 3.0 factor of safety on tire pressure (as in, if the tire is rated at 40 psi, it can actually hold 120...which is why stunt drivers inflate their tires to 100 psi when they drive on two wheels). I'm hoping this applies to speed ratings as well ;)


edit: I will be switching my tires when it gets warmer and there is no more snow. So it will not be remotely warm out if/when I ever have to drive that fast, nor will I drive that fast if it is raining or snowing at all.
 

Keros

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Mar 16, 2007
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How old is the tire? If it is 3 years or less old, it could likely go over 99mph for a short period of time (a pull and back off). Sustained speeds exceeding the Q rating will probably rip them apart though. As far as I understand it, speed rating is determined by how well the tread is attached to the carcass/sidewall, and thus, how heavy the tread is... lighter treads would produce less centripital force at higher speeds, allowing the tire to rotate faster with the same adhesion of the carcass. That information is not founded on a technical article... don't take it as truth or fact.

Do not exceed the manufacturer's max inflation pressure: http://www.4x4now.com/sf1296.htm . If you're ballsy, 10% is pushing it.

In all seriousness, if there's half the tread remaining, the tires have probably seen plenty of abuse and aren't as strong as they were when new. If they're a few years old, that only compounds the problem. Keep in mind that snow tires are typically very soft and wear quite quickly... the faster you drive the faster they wear out.

If it were me, I'd keep it under 100mph.
 

Keros

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Mar 16, 2007
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SideWinderGX;1222457 said:
I read on here (or SF or something) that there is a 3.0 factor of safety on tire pressure (as in, if the tire is rated at 40 psi, it can actually hold 120...which is why stunt drivers inflate their tires to 100 psi when they drive on two wheels). I'm hoping this applies to speed ratings as well ;)

Ok, the following has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I don't want this bit of misinformation to continue to spread... it's dangerous and someone could get killed trying it.

Harry Lewellyn said:
1. An 8x15 inch trailer tire, load range E, 85 psi rating, blew out a sidewall during inflation. Tire tech was on top of the tire because the safety equipment was not working right. It launched him first, and went through the shop roof. Compressor was set for 165 psi with no regulator between the tank and the tire but 150 feet of 1/2 inch pipe.

2. A 15-inch car tire, 32 psi rating, gas station had a locking air chuck (OS HA required). User did not realize that letting go of the chuck would not stop air flow. The hose blew out, knocked him down and lifted the tire over a retaining wall. Severe head injury.

3. Wheelbarrow tire, 4x8, 32 psi rating, aired up with unregulated hose connected to 100 psi. The rim split in half and decapitated owner.

4. Nearly new bicycle tire, mine, 90 psi rating, blew off rim at 70 psi. Stress in bead wires is 300,000 psi! Tire manufacturer says, "Tires blow off the rim all the time," like it was no big deal. Tell that to my knee.

5. Bike tires are thin-walled but also very small cross section. Thin-wall pressure-vessel design is just a ratio of diameter to wall. Bicycle tires are bias ply, so the cords don't separate as the tire swells, like a radial. (Bill Fragale, Phoenix area, also nailed me on this one.)

6. My tire engineer warns against exceeding sidewall rating by more than 10 percent. Orris says the first thing to fail should be the sidewall. Steel rims are formed from one piece of sheet and will not fail, but some aluminum rims might fail by the flange breaking off. The rim fragment will be a bullet.

7. Air at about 125 psi behaves like pure oxygen! Organic materials can spontaneously com- bust in it. When this happens the gasses expand even more and what you have is a one-cylinder engine with no crankshaft and no exhaust valve.

8. Navy has one serious accident a day from high-pressure air. See 7.

9. Desert temperatures and high altitude can raise tire pressure another 20 percent (pvnrt = pvnrt). See 7.

10. Tires have a warning on the sidewall not to exceed a certain pressure to seat beads. Usually it is less than 125 percent.

11. Most of the tire-explosion problems we have seen are from putting tires on the wrong size rims. There are 15.5- and 16.5- inch tires and rims, that almost interchange with 15, or 16, but will release without warning, at or near rated pressure.

12.Just because you get away with something does not mean it's safe. Safety factor is not there for us to use, it's a safety margin to deal with the unpredictable, like: Suppose your gauge is off, or the tire has latent defects, or they overstressed it in mounting, or in your case, you high center on a rock.

13.The energy stored in your 32- inch diameter tire at 100 psi is 13,000 foot pounds, enough to lift the entire truck 4 feet, or launch tire and wheel at 146 feet per second. That's 12 times the muzzle energy of a .44 magnum! How securely is that tire attached to your truck?

In doing the research for the FOURWHEELING ACADEMY on deflating tires, I learned the typical snap-in tubeless valve stem is only rated to 65 PSI maximum. There are others that are rated to 100 PSI maximum. You'd have to dismount the tire to tell the difference. The large-diameter, bottom contour will have straight sides (lighter line) versus the curved sides of the 65 PSI version. The Tire and Rim Association, Inc. (TRA) engineer told me there's more than just a rubber contour difference, too. The metal core also has a flange to make it virtually blow-through fail-safe. There is no pressure rating specified by TRA for the bolt-in type.

With all that, let me radically revise my recommendations about using the spare as a compressor tank. 1) Only use the spare as a tank if it is stored outside and beneath the car. 2) Use a new tire only. 3) Use only an LT (load rating C or better) tire. 4) Per 6 above, don't exceed the sidewall rating by more than 10 percent. 5) Make sure you use high-pressure valve stems. 6) Only use steel rims. 7) Slowly and progressively increase (test) the pressure on your particular tire and rim. First test at rated pressure, then increase in 2 percent increments. Make sure the test-tire is out of sight of everyone and everything that could be damaged. 8) Don't inspect an overinflated tire. 9) Deflate the tire below the sidewall rating before using, removing or working on or around the spare. 10) Have a gauge permanently plumbed into the storage system and make sure it is in plain view. You want to detect a compressor automatic shutoff switch malfunction. 11) Put a blow-off valve in the system.

I just don't want someone to come across this thread and decide they can inflate their tires to twice the rated pressure to get more gas milage. There's no 3x safety factor. Any safety factor built into a tire is there for things we can't see... flaws in the rubber, broken or weak belts, overloaded or strained adhesives, ect.
 

SideWinderGX

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Gah, just my luck I can't find the thread on it. I know exactly what was posted and remember a website/picture that was posted up of a crown vic (I think) on two wheels, with a caption saying 100 psi. There was a bit of an argument about it ;)

+1 about why there is a safety factor built into the tire, I agree. Good info too, I stumbled across that website before I posted up this thread :)
 

adampecush

Regular Supramaniac
May 11, 2006
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Edmonton
I personally would not exceed the speed rating. The ratings are generally based upon how much the tire will heat up at speed, and it is unlikely that there is a "safety factor" per se. There are so many variables regarding the conditions the tire could be used in, it is likely that the rating represents more of a worst-case scenario.

I can't see any situation you would be using the tires at speed anyway...If you are approaching 100mph in the snow, you're an idiot. If the roads are dry, use a summer/all season tire. The road feel/control of a snow tire is also not exactly optimal either, and it gets worse with speed.

If you choose to exceed the rating, have fun trying to control the car when your front wheel explodes at high speed.
 

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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Twin Cities, Minnesot-ah
snow tires?

why on earth would you go fast with snow tires? Most snow tires are sipped so they have some bite in the snow but on dry pavement, they give. I can tell you that on totally dry pavement they feel loose.

Sidewider

Don't be stupid man.