Engine rod knock/seized. Oil to blame?

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

Penzoil FTL

Use castrol or even mobil always synthetics.

If the oil was ok other then metal pieces like no sludge breakdown FOD fuel oil dilution water in oil etc..
Then I think it was crank walk or oil starvation (clogged oil gally, bad oil pump) that took out the 7M

Its up to you to find in engine teardown.

 

[T701jz]

What torque specs did you use? How high and often did you rev this car?

 

[Zazzn]

torque specs for what? I've never rebuilt the engine it's factory below the head. (just cams in the head and S&R)

I will tare it apart albeit unhappy. Again the strangest thing I found was the oil made the car feel like crank walk when I put it in by stalling the car when pressing the clutch although the 3200LB clutch didn't help I did disable the NU start switch.

I most likely will NOT rebuild it for fear of contaminated oil cooler, crank damage, oil pump damage ect. IMO not worth it since I can get another JDM 2jz for 1400 and I needed a spare set of twins anyways since I think i'm going to detune the mk3 to stock twins setup and put the single kit on the mk4. (only makes sense since i have a V161 in the mk4 and a twin disc clutch already)

 

[Poodles]

Same engine that had isses with the flywheel and flywheel bolts?

 

[OneJSupra]

I still do not think it's because of the oil used rather than oil starvation itself.

 

[blackgamer16]

You did mention that you overheated the engine twice, curious where you still on the same oil?

Also its no new news about those single clutches creating crankwalk. I highly think its your clutch that caused the rod knock- Sorry to hear about the sh*tty news

 

[jdub]

i never run 5 30 in canada or at lest were i live 10 30 for me

and i droped penzoil long ago

i now run castrol

Penzoil FTL

Use castrol or even mobil always synthetics.

It amazes me sometimes :3d_frown:

umm yea i know that but it never gets that cold out here sooo 10 works best for me

and i get better oil pressure at start up that's why i run 10 30

Now THAT is a really great idea :sarcasm:

oil not to blame eric.

time to do a taredown...

Oil to blame? This is how witch hunts get started.

Reason emerges from chaos

 

[di_rosa]

eric is leaving out one little piece of information.................when we installed those cams (against my wishes), and the very next day his oil was silver/grey, even though we shimmed the valve lash to the tight side of the TSRM specs.........we later shimmed them another 2 thou tighter (cause the cams were still loud), changed the oil, and didn't have any more problems with the oil...........i grenaded 4 rebuilds do to those same brand of cams, except i never shimmed them under the TSRM specs. i still say it's those damn cams that were putting metal in your oil little by little and what didn't get caught by the oil filter slowly ate away at your bottom end (including thrust washers).

 

[jdub]

eric is leaving out one little piece of information.................when we installed those cams (against my wishes), and the very next day his oil was silver/grey, even though we shimmed the valve lash to the tight side of the TSRM specs.........we later shimmed them another 2 thou tighter (cause the cams were still loud), changed the oil, and didn't have any more problems with the oil...........i grenaded 4 rebuilds do to those same brand of cams, except i never shimmed them under the TSRM specs. i still say it's those damn cams that were putting metal in your oil little by little and what didn't get caught by the oil filter slowly ate away at your bottom end (including thrust washers).

Zazzn leaving out a piece of the puzzle...noooooo. Can't be true :sarcasm:
(It's so much easier to blame the oil)

 

[Zazzn]

Same engine that had issues with the flywheel and flywheel bolts?

yes flywheel hasn't been any problems since. :/

 

[Zazzn]

eric is leaving out one little piece of information.................when we installed those cams (against my wishes), and the very next day his oil was silver/grey, even though we shimmed the valve lash to the tight side of the TSRM specs.........we later shimmed them another 2 thou tighter (cause the cams were still loud), changed the oil, and didn't have any more problems with the oil...........i grenaded 4 rebuilds do to those same brand of cams, except i never shimmed them under the TSRM specs. i still say it's those damn cams that were putting metal in your oil little by little and what didn't get caught by the oil filter slowly ate away at your bottom end (including thrust washers).

Those where crower NOT brian crower that you had trouble with, and I still blame it on your stupidity of driving up the drive way by just cranking it over. That's how the first engine of your blew in the first place, then after that it was still garbage rebuilds since you where knocking with 2-3 KM on the engine.

Yes after I installed my cams the first time 2 YEARS ago, they where shimed 7-8 thou and 9-10 on the exhaust they where loud as hell, so I re shimmed to 5-6 and 7-8 and has no problems since. I changed the oil after running the engine for 20 min and seeing that the oil had changed at idle the next day. Fast forward 6 months and 30 pulls on the dyno 8000 Miles and 647 WHP and everything is fine. Fast forward another year to this summer another 3000 miles later and I started having issues.

Zazzn leaving out a piece of the puzzle...noooooo. Can't be true :sarcasm:
(It's so much easier to blame the oil)

It is easy to blame the oil when you press the clutch after an oil change and about 1000KM later your RPM dips to the point that it is stalling the car.

 

[jdub]

It is easy to blame the oil when you press the clutch after an oil change and about 1000KM later your RPM dips to the point that it is stalling the car.

Eric - You can blame the oil and you can think I'm blowing smoke up your tailpipe, but there is a thing called a coincidence. Fairly common actually. I can tell you with 100% accuracy that it was not the oil, unless you let it get low enough to uncover the pick-up or your pump failed.

If the oil you drained a while back had a silver ting, you should have had it analyzed...that would have confirmed what was causing the silver vs guessing...it would have told you exactly what metals were in the oil. When you cut the filter open and did a visual examination of the media for metal particles provided a wealth of information that you chose to ignore. That is a huge red flag that an oil analysis needs to be done.

Blaming the oil itself is a gross simplification that is nowhere near the cause. All this banter about "crank walk", "wear on the thrust washers" and the above "RPM dip" with oil as the cause is pure conjecture...no basis in fact at all.

Just so I do not assume, was this was a JDM block that was installed with no work done to the internals?

BTW - the discoloration you mentioned was the syn oil cleaning out your engine...something a syn oil, even a Grp III synthetic like Pennzoil Platinum (an excellent oil), does very well. To call this the "second bad apple" is absolutely ludicrous...dark oil is not a true indicator of how well it's performing. There is no way you can just look at oil and judge it's condition (and I don't care what you've been told or believe).

 

[di_rosa]

yeah, my bad, i didn't realize it was really 2 years ago when that happened. i retract my previous statement, and blame it on the clutch then.........another reason why i raised my rpms to 1k to get the oil pressure above 20psi when i press in the clutch.

jdub, thank you for clarifying that penzoil platinum synthetic is a good oil, as i run the same (it's on sale a lot, and i'm broke).

 

[Poodles]

Flywheel already did the damage long ago, and it just built up to a full-on failure...

 

[jdub]

jdub, thank you for clarifying that penzoil platinum synthetic is a good oil, as i run the same (it's on sale a lot, and i'm broke).

For a Grp III synthetic, it's the best out there IMO...the additive pack is superb. Beats the pants off Mobil 1.

 

[Zazzn]

Eric - You can blame the oil and you can think I'm blowing smoke up your tailpipe, but there is a thing called a coincidence. Fairly common actually. I can tell you with 100% accuracy that it was not the oil, unless you let it get low enough to uncover the pick-up or your pump failed.

If the oil you drained a while back had a silver ting, you should have had it analyzed...that would have confirmed what was causing the silver vs guessing...it would have told you exactly what metals were in the oil. When you cut the filter open and did a visual examination of the media for metal particles provided a wealth of information that you chose to ignore. That is a huge red flag that an oil analysis needs to be done.

Blaming the oil itself is a gross simplification that is nowhere near the cause. All this banter about "crank walk", "wear on the thrust washers" and the above "RPM dip" with oil as the cause is pure conjecture...no basis in fact at all.

Just so I do not assume, was this was a JDM block that was installed with no work done to the internals?

BTW - the discoloration you mentioned was the syn oil cleaning out your engine...something a syn oil, even a Grp III synthetic like Pennzoil Platinum (an excellent oil), does very well. To call this the "second bad apple" is absolutely ludicrous...dark oil is not a true indicator of how well it's performing. There is no way you can just look at oil and judge it's condition (and I don't care what you've been told or believe).

I don't disagree with you, I really think all oils are pretty much good if they are a major brand. I usually buy whatever is on special... This was the first time I ran fully synthetic in the engine and the first time 5w30.

But found it a little too coincidental which is why I posted... I guess really it has nothing to do with the brand....

BTW the oil wasn't changed until after the overheat, I was actually changing it the next day after the test run since everything was closed and just wanted to see if I fixed the boost leak.

Flywheel already did the damage long ago, and it just built up to a full-on failure...

how so? I don't see how the flywheel could have caused this...? unless somehow the flywheel wasn't balanced but remember i resurfaced the flywheel at a machine shop and cleaned up the crank very very nicely which is why it's been seated ever since.


Regardless, I don't disagree the proper way would have been to remove it but honestly I dind't feel like rebuliding just for that. Not much more money not to rebulid then it would have been.... Besides I won't be rebuilding it since I needed a few spare parts so I'll probably get a new engine.


should have the engine out this week, just trying to get my engine hoist back... So many people don't want to pitch for one but then all want to use it...lol:3d_frown:

 

[Poodles]

It was rattling. That will place extreme loads on the thrust washers and if they go, the rest of the motor goes shortly after.

You said it had done it several times. Even though it was repaired, the damage was already done. The crazy RPS clutch doesn't help either...

 

[jdub]

I don't disagree with you, I really think all oils are pretty much good if they are a major brand. I usually buy whatever is on special... This was the first time I ran fully synthetic in the engine and the first time 5w30.

But found it a little too coincidental which is why I posted... I guess really it has nothing to do with the brand....

BTW the oil wasn't changed until after the overheat, I was actually changing it the next day after the test run since everything was closed and just wanted to see if I fixed the boost leak.

The real difference in brands is the base stock and the formulation of the add pack. Castrol European Formula, Amsoil and Royal Purple are PAO base...Red Line is an ester base. The difference is these oils handle heat far better and do not break down easily due to the long chain molecules inherent in a PAO/ester. The remaining "synthetic oils" like Mobil 1, Castrol SynTec, and Pennzoil Platinum are highly hydrocracked dino oil...not a true syn oil by definition.

FYI, ester based oils are used in jet engines. A far more demanding environment heat wise than our puny I6 engines. I prefer a PAO/ester based oil for this reason in a turbo car...the heat demands are a lot higher vs a N/A motor and either can handle it easily.

You were dead on telling Nash that there is no difference in viscosity between a 10W and 5W-30 at ops temp. In fact, there are quite a few 5W-30 oils that are thicker at 100 deg C than a 10W-30 at the same temp. Everyone says a 5W-30 is "thin as water" pouring at room temp...that is a good thing for flow. Oil at OAT is still 5-7 times thicker than what it is at 100 deg C and that includes the "thin" 0W or 5W-30 oils. The resulting lower oil pressure at cold start-up means the bearings are actually getting more total oil flow than a thicker 10W-30 oil. People seem to forget pressure is resistance to flow.

 

[Zumtizzle]

Detuning?!

Ohh well you had a good run with it.

 

[Zazzn]

It was rattling. That will place extreme loads on the thrust washers and if they go, the rest of the motor goes shortly after.

You said it had done it several times. Even though it was repaired, the damage was already done. The crazy RPS clutch doesn't help either...

yeah I guess true, although once I heard the rattling in the trans i drove it straight to the garage.

Regardless, I believe because the trustwashers went the rest of the engine pretty much nuked like you said. I'm going to yank it and take a look at the carnage.


For now i changed the oil, and put a new filter, jammed the turbo so it can't turn so I could reverse it in to the garage so I can get the cherry picker ready to pull the sob. Any suggestions on rinsing the turbo with clean oil to get anything that could have gotten into the turbo feed?

Also does the oil feed to the turbo go though the filter first?