Egr delete/block off plate

[Poodles]

I got rid of the EGR... no issues. The exhaust temp will likely be higher (probably about 100 degrees according to tests done).

Did I do it because I thought it improved the engine? Nope. Did it because its unmonitored on a MK3 (North American) except in California.

The fact that it ISN'T monitored is why it's dangerous to delete it. In modern OBD2 cars, there are sensors to detect if EGR is functioning, if it's not, the tuning changes to stop damage from occurring.

Mine was leaking for a few years and I had no idea it was doing so. Also, the parts that I wanted to replace were no longer available OEM. So... it is gone.

All the parts are still available...

Am I going to have issues? nope.

Possibly, if you're standalone, of course not.

Is it going to hurt the environment? nope. Neither is removing my cats.. although it smells funny.. lol.

Its all in keeping things in perspective. A proper block-off will work just fine. If it was a critical part of the engine it would/should be monitored.

This is OBD1 not OBD2, they've learned a hell of a lot. Not to mention computing power has come a long way. More power allows modern cars to keep track of more so they're more efficient and reliable.

As for no cats & no EGR, I personally only drive about 3000-5000 km per year (that's ALL vehicles) so.. why would I worry? Other things to think about.

That's the equivalent of saying I "only" burn down 1 hours a year, I'm not doing any harm...

Bottom line.. you can delete the EGR and your engine will be fine (just do it properly). Just be aware your EGT's will be slightly higher.

When how many BHG's can be attributed to deleting the EGR? Most people just chock it up to being "that damn stupid 7M" instead of looking at what they screwed up.

I run 93 octane pump gas, and the occasional 109 Lucas octane booster.

Keep in mind octane booster doesn't raise octane that much, if at all. Raising octane .1 is about all those things do.

 

[Grandavi]

(I edited my original post prior to this so people wont think I actually know what I am talking about.. )

I take it you think I'm hurting the environment driving without a cat and EGR...
I disagree.. but hey... I get an implied facepalm... my day is complete!

Just to get it right.. your saying... I am hurting my 7M by running without an EGR? I haven't read anything that stated that going without an EGR will cause an overheated number 6 cylinder. Is this a theory or is it proven?

I read the threads about the EGR tests and the temp differences in the exhaust. I have also read other arguments about EGR vs no EGR. Nowhere have I found a definitive... its gonna hurt.. don't do it.

I will also agree that reduced EGT will allow for higher ping tolerance, possibly better performance and gas mileage. (that's just common sense.. especially if its 100 degrees difference)
Still... a lot of "common sense" guessing on what the total effect is. A lot have been running without the EGR with no issues.


Thread of interest:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...eresting-Effect-on-EGT&highlight=EGR* removal

... and.. just to say, I agree removing it will increase EGT's and the 7M tends to get very hot in the cyl 5 and 6 region (simply by design). I also agree that it will add Nox emissions (not enough to cause an issue.. I mean.. really.. Im not that important).

But I don't agree that EGR removal = BHG. Probably increases chances due to higher temps in that region, but I don't personally believe its unsafe.

and.. for the final little statement... I am NOT a mechanic or mechanical engineer, these are all simply my opinions. I can't prove them.

 

[Nick M]

Is it going to hurt the environment? nope. Neither is removing my cats.. although it smells funny.. lol.

This is somewhat true, but grossly incomplete. You can not hurt the enviorment. It will always recover. But it will hurt those in it. Especially when everybody takes the attittude you have taken. I don't know how old you are, but the US was trashed in the 70's. It can happen.

 

[Nick M]

What is funny is the same debates took place 10 years ago, just not in this forum. Back then those that didn't know any better said EGR caused BHG by increasing heat in the back of the head and introducing more heat and detonation with the exhaust.

 

[Grandavi]

This is somewhat true, but grossly incomplete. You can not hurt the enviorment. It will always recover. But it will hurt those in it. Especially when everybody takes the attittude you have taken. I don't know how old you are, but the US was trashed in the 70's. It can happen.

(50, I witnessed the death of the Great lakes...)

On a large scale.. I would be hurting the environment. But for my piddly little driving the effect is pretty well zero. Just keep it in perspective. This is a 1988 Supra... 25 years old. I keep it tuned as best I can and it gets extreme care. It ran for almost a decade with a faulty EGR because its not monitored (you could see the black coming off the head) and no issues arose because of it. This isn't something that a whole neighborhood or city will do so, yes.. if EVERYONE did it.. it would have a drastic effect, but that's not even a tiny bit likely to happen now because OBDII cars have monitored EGRs plus I believe they have more stringent engineering design requiring the EGR to service individual cylinders (don't quote me on that).

If I had the part when the engine was out of the car (I was told at Jeff Lange's dealership it was obsolete) I would have replaced it. But, I talked to Reg Reimer and another separate mechanic and they both said it isn't something to worry about in regards to my 7M. They pointed out (confirming) what was going to happen (EGT rise) but said it wasn't something I should worry about. Specifically about MY car.

I run 91 octane minimum, get great fuel economy (25+ mpg when I drive sane) and drive less in a year than most do in a month. So.. no.. I will not be affecting the environment adversely. Not in any quantity that would matter.
(oh.. and yes.. you can tell the cats are deleted, which I find a bit annoying so may actually add the cats back on at a later date... lol)


oh.. to the OP... here's the TSRM page...

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/EPC/291420/catalog.aspx?Figure=2501&Page=1

For very specific information... google is your friend (try 7MGTE EGR Delete)

 

[Supraguy7M]

[QUOTE/]
Keep in mind octane booster doesn't raise octane that much, if at all. Raising octane .1 is about all those things do.[/QUOTE]

Well that's pretty good to know.. seeing as its 15 dollars that I could spend on somthing better for the car I suppose. I bought a car older then me, I guess I've got a lot to learn about OBD1 systems.

Just so you know, I won't put anything other then Shell premium in my tank. Its the only gas around where I live that has a high enough quality to keep the turboed cars happy.

 

[Rollus]

I deleted EGR for the very same reason than Grandavi.

Opened the engine 12000km after to go MHG, and no worn or burnt places. I increased my MPG for 15/20%, and decreased for the same number the petrol produced and shipped for me.
Does my engine producing some more NOx is worse than producing fine particles for earth and health? I don't know.

To answer op, with proper blocking plate it shouldn't hurt your engine, and will please your wallet.

 

[Grandavi]

I deleted EGR for the very same reason than Grandavi.

Open the engine 12000km after to go MHG, and no wear or burnt place. I increased my MPG for 15/20%, and decreased for the same number the petrol produced and shipped for me.
Does my engine producing some more NOx is worse than producing fine particles for earth and health? I don't know.

To answer op, with proper blocking plate it shouldn't hurt your engine, and will please your wallet.

Not sure I agree with the increase of MPG.. that doesn't make sense to me. Should actually decrease because you cant increase the timing as well due to the higher EGT. I wouldn't do it for that reason.

only two reasons I would delete the EGR. 1. Its unmonitored and a bitch to get at with the engine in the bay and 2. You don't have the parts on hand to fix it.

The only benefit I have with NOT having an EGR is I wont have to repair it. (although.. that's also a very bad reason IF it increases head failure in cylinder 5-6, which I don't know if its theory or fact)

 

[Rollus]

For MPG it may be a side effect due to a lighter and afraid about knocking right foot.
One thing I'm sure, there is less carbon in my cylinders, and that should increase efficiency even a little.

 

[Poodles]

BHG from removal of the EGR isn't from heat, it's from detonation. The higher EGT's are a byproduct of the tuning (leaner and more advanced timing because it expects EGR) as well as the simple cooling effect of the EGR system which is why it lowers NOX.

NOX is one of the worst combustion byproducts, and it effects the health of people local to it.

Also, not going to get better gas milage without EGR, period.

 

[Grandavi]

So, a stand alone ECU tune wont notice the EGR delete than.

 

[jetjock]

So much fail. Again, see post #16. I won't even get into the emissions thing, sad as it is.

..I increased my MPG for 15/20%...

15-20%? Come on Monsewer. Don't make me come over there and demand your surrender.

What's amusing about all this is some of you apparently forget this stuff and a whole lot more has been studied to death for nearly 100 years. If you really want to understand it join the SAE to get access.

The only other thing I'm going to say is any exhaust sans catalyst that smells bad has something wrong with the engine.