Dyno results, what's wrong with my car

[gottakeepon]

Specs on the car:
Safc
7mgte
lex afm
550's
built motor, all arp hardware
stock cams
Greddy manual boost controller
Boss Lipp stage 4 to4e 60-1 turbo
20,000 miles on rebuild

I'm getting a horrible 17mpg. The best I've ever gotten was 19mpg on a flat road for 200 miles straight. It goes back and forth between 15 and 17mpg on average. That's without boosting on the whole tank. I understand getting horrible mileage while boosting, but I don't get why it's always like that. When I moved, from Portland here to Riverside, Ca, I arrived and my bumper was covered in black gas filth.

I had the car Tuned by Jason at PSI in Portland. He didn't have any answers for me, at all. Was quite disappointed in that. Everyone I've shown the dyno results too, and talked to about it, says I'm down about 100 horsepower and that it is related to my fuel mileage.

This run was at 20 psi, as my boost controller doesn't hold and it creeps up to 20 regardless.

I am looking for a local shop in the inland empire, but after having taken my car to PSI and having them give me no answers, I'd like to figure it out myself.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[Enraged]

First things first, have you done a leakdown or compression check, or anything to determine if the motor itself is good? Have you checked for boost leaks, any other maintenance issues? are you sure the injectors are good? stock ignition? how are the plugs (pull them and check, lean, rich, proper gap etc)? stock timing?

looking at your dyno sheet it looks a bit lean, especially after 5500 where its creeping into 12:1 in boost. I don't know anything about PSI, but it may be worth having another tuner look at it to rule out tuning issues.

that is definetaly something wrong though, my car made nearly the same power on a stock turbo and injectors. I would imagine you should be over 400rwhp with that turbo.

 

[suprahero]

That black gas filth on your bumper tells you that you're running rich. You'll also be way down on your horsepower when it's running rich. Has he had his wideband calibrated anytime soon? Do you have one on your car to verify that it is running 12's at around five grand? Running it lean like that should increase the horsepower not kill it. Maybe it's running richer than his wideband is reading. Maybe you have a boost leak. Where are you reading your boost pressure from?
I don't know what kind of power you should be making with a 60-1, but it seems like it should be closer to 400 than it is.

 

[suprahero]

It also looks like you should be making your max power at least a grand sooner. I though 7m's were known for making good torque. Seems like a boost leak or something causing it to make power at five grand instead of thirty five hundred to four grand. Is your wastegate operating properly? Maybe it's a boost controller issue, but it seems like you're definately losing boost.

 

[Poodles]

Is it just me, or is his AFR a bit all over the place?

 

[gottakeepon]

First things first, have you done a leakdown or compression check, or anything to determine if the motor itself is good? Have you checked for boost leaks, any other maintenance issues? are you sure the injectors are good? stock ignition? how are the plugs (pull them and check, lean, rich, proper gap etc)? stock timing?

looking at your dyno sheet it looks a bit lean, especially after 5500 where its creeping into 12:1 in boost. I don't know anything about PSI, but it may be worth having another tuner look at it to rule out tuning issues.

that is definetaly something wrong though, my car made nearly the same power on a stock turbo and injectors. I would imagine you should be over 400rwhp with that turbo.

PSI is where John Reed works out of in Portland. They are a very reputable shop, but I was not impressed with their tuner, Jason.

Not sure the injectors are good, haven't tested them.

Msd ignition

I'll pull plugs tomorrow. But a week ago my mechanic friend checked them and said they looked good, I wasn't there though. Haven't checked timing either. I'm Leary to take it to another tuner so soon, as I just blew $350 on basically nothing with PSI

I did a compression test not long ago in trying to figure this out. Results were as follows:
Cylinder #1 169 psi
Cylinder #2 172 psi
Cylinder #3 172 psi
Cylinder #4 168 psi
Cylinder #5 171 psi
Cylinder #6 176 psi


I recently checked for boost leaks and found only an air leak on my bov. Which I have since fixed.

That black gas filth on your bumper tells you that you're running rich. You'll also be way down on your horsepower when it's running rich. Has he had his wideband calibrated anytime soon? Do you have one on your car to verify that it is running 12's at around five grand? Running it lean like that should increase the horsepower not kill it. Maybe it's running richer than his wideband is reading. Maybe you have a boost leak. Where are you reading your boost pressure from?
I don't know what kind of power you should be making with a 60-1, but it seems like it should be closer to 400 than it is.

It also looks like you should be making your max power at least a grand sooner. I though 7m's were known for making good torque. Seems like a boost leak or something causing it to make power at five grand instead of thirty five hundred to four grand. Is your wastegate operating properly? Maybe it's a boost controller issue, but it seems like you're definately losing boost.

I'm assuming the wideband is good to go, John Reed does use this dyno. I do have a AEM wideband on my car, it is running in the 12's at around five grand. I don't get on it much as I'm so frustrated with this issue I just want to figure it out before beating on it. I bought the car as it sits, so I don't know where I'm reading boost pressure from. I'll trace that tomorrow as well. I have seen on CS.com a guy with a similar setup as mine, plus a stand alone, and he's in the 500's at 20psi, 400's at 12-15. Supposedly before I bought the car, it was making over 400 at 15psi too.

A friend of mine thought it was my wastegate, but I don't know how to properly check that. Replacing my boost controller is on top of my list, as mine is crap, but I don't believe that's my full issue.

Is it just me, or is his AFR a bit all over the place?

My afr's are all over the place, and I don't know why. While cruising at 70, on cruise control. It sits at about 14.7, then occasionally will go really rich and drop into the 10's until I give it some gas and get it off cruise control. Really a weird mystery to me.


I'm planning on getting a standalone in the near future. But I really want to figure out these issues before I spend all the money on a stand alone, and still be stuck in the same situation.

 

[MightyAl]

Have you checked the reaction of your O2? It looks like your wot is ok but your part throttle could be crap. I found with the led afm and 550s that cruising and idle was usually rich. The safr doesn't help in closed loop operation and was difficult to tune around. Get a wideband on it during cruise light load and see what is going on.

 

[gottakeepon]

Have you checked the reaction of your O2?

I have a wideband always on it. An aem uego. I don't know what checking the reaction of my o2 means though.

 

[suprahero]

Is it just me, or is his AFR a bit all over the place?

They could easily be tuned to be better, but that wouldn't cause the very poor dyno results. It looks like they're around 11 most of the way and then lean out at the end of the run. I wouldn't ever tune anything for 12's, but then again I tune mine on the rich side. Mine afr's are about 11.5 with 93 octane and methanol. That's a little rich I think for methanol, but my engine has held together for the last three years or so at 640rwhp, so I'm not changing anything.

 

[gottakeepon]

Issues I'm having:

Jumpy, unstable afr's
Horrible gas mileage
down 100 hp at least
making power 1000 rpm late

What do those things together, mean, is what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[IJ.]

Dead/dying 02 sensor, now and again going into closed loop so you get reasonable AFRS@ cruise then it drops it's load and the engine goes into Limp...

 

[gottakeepon]

IJ, I replaced the 02 sensor 2 week ago with a brand new one as that's a code it was throwing.
Other codes I have diagnosed were the knock sensor wiring, which I redid, the tps which I replaced, and an alternator code, which I also replaced.

It doesn't throw any codes now.

Do you think I got another bad 02 sensor?

 

[Grandavi]

What is the shortblock build on this. I am assuming your running 3" exhaust turbo back...
Im also assuming you aren't running on the stock fuel pump?

(just wondering about the pistons if your running 20 psi).

I can't offer you any insight to what's going on, just following this because Im about a week away from tuning mine and was curious about the other components. It just seems grossly underpowered.

Also, a leakdown test will tell you more than a compression test for how everything is sealed, but I dont think thats where your problem lies.

 

[MightyAl]

Do you think I got another bad 02 sensor?

In the manual it tells you how to check the response of the O2 sensor to make sure it is reading correctly and that the ecu is responding to the input.

You haven't seen anything goofy with the AFRs at cruise? It should be pretty lean at that point.

 

[Enraged]

can you kill an o2 sensor if you run too rich for a long time?

 

[IJ.]

IJ, I replaced the 02 sensor 2 week ago with a brand new one as that's a code it was throwing.
Other codes I have diagnosed were the knock sensor wiring, which I redid, the tps which I replaced, and an alternator code, which I also replaced.

It doesn't throw any codes now.

Do you think I got another bad 02 sensor?

Which Sensor did you replace?

The Wideband or the Narrowband or both?

 

[MightyAl]

can you kill an o2 sensor if you run too rich for a long time?

That is what I have experienced.

Are you still running a cat on this thing. I know running rich will clog a cat which could cause problems.

 

[gottakeepon]

Which Sensor did you replace?

The Wideband or the Narrowband or both?

Narrowband

That is what I have experienced.

Are you still running a cat on this thing. I know running rich will clog a cat which could cause problems.

No cat.

 

[IJ.]

Are there any codes?

 

[gottakeepon]

IJ, I replaced the 02 sensor 2 week ago with a brand new one as that's a code it was throwing.
Other codes I have diagnosed were the knock sensor wiring, which I redid, the tps which I replaced, and an alternator code, which I also replaced.

It doesn't throw any codes now.

Do you think I got another bad 02 sensor?

No codes last time I checked IJ

I'll check again when I get back off work.