Does anyone use sub-injectors?

[Adjuster]

Dude, as Grimjack, and IJ and Myself have pointed out..

The idea of "secondary injectors" is not new, or stupid.

The simple fact is, that if you are going to do this THE RIGHT WAY, don't spend your money on results that are not the best results possible.

Does that mean that the Maft Pro is the best possible way to do this? Heck no, but it's about the most cost effective way to seriously upgrade your TCCS/7MGTE from stock.

With the Eman, you still have Fuel Cut issues to deal with. Even with the Hz rate clamped at 1450hz, the TCCS would still FC on my car. So it's not only the Hz rate that determines cut, but other factors..

It has been done before, and it will surely be done again, but ignore the good advice on this post at your own peril.

Engine rebuilds are expensive. Ask IJ, or I about that (Or anyone else that's had a fuel related engine failure... There are a few of us who have learned the hard way that little things can make or break your day when your pushing an engine under boost.)

Can you run two stock/used 440's in custom bungs welded up to the 3000 pipe and have it work just fine? Sure.

Will it allow you to make all the power your CT based setup will supply? Possibly.

Is it cheaper? Possibly.

Do you have any left over headroom? Nope.

Are you going to want more power? (I can tell you, a taste of power is the first step to blowing up your first motor for many people on here.)

It is easy to turn the 7MGTE up to about 350 to 400hp. Bolt on stuff, and a tight stock motor, and your there easy. But, going over 400hp, your stock stuff starts to get very close to failure. (The injectors are pushed to the limit, the turbo is putting out mostly hot air, intercooler flow rates start to matter more, and the TCCS can't handle it without a piggyback that allows for the fuel changes needed.)

There is a reason I ditched the Eman Blue. Not because it did not work, but because it was still dependant on the AFM, and other factors that limit how much you get back from how much you put in.

Good luck on your build and fuel system/controls. (And you will notice I'm not rambling on about 550's and a lexus AFM..) Been there. Done that.

Want more? Open your mind up, and close your mouth more, and you might just learn something.

 

[TheNewRed]

Want more? Open your mind up, and close your mouth more, and you might just learn something.

Very simply put, but as buldozr put it im just trying to think out of the box a little, and im surely not decling you-alls opinions, so i dont see a problem with what i've stated/asked. As for "shutting my mouth"....this is a forum, im asking questions and tying to gain knowledge on the subject...no problem with that, or is there??? But anyway Sub injector idea...dead or what guys??:icon_frow

 

[IJ.]

In this case "Thinking outside the box" = "Being a cheap arse"
(you won't find too many here that think further outside the box than I do)

ALL of this has been tried before all we're doing is pointing out the pitfalls, by all means go off and rig up your fuel system and report back how it goes.

Personally I think it's stupid and a good way to kill a motor but what would I know.... :nono:

 

[TheNewRed]

In this case "Thinking outside the box" aka "Being a cheap arse"
(you won't find too many here that think further outside the box than I do)

ALL of this has been tried before all we're doing is pointing out the pitfalls, by all means go off and rig up your fuel system and report back how it goes.

Personally I think it's stupid and a good way to kill a motor but what would I know.... :nono:

Ok well thanks guys, for the feedback, ill try a different route!

 

[themadhatter]

Since the stock intake manifold and even aftermarket ffim are desighned as dry manifolds wouldn't there be fuel ditrbution and atomazation problems with running extra injectors?

 

[IJ.]

TMH: Exactly not to mention the puddle in the 3000 pipe when you slam the throttle shut on boost and the rich uneven distribution when you reopen it....

 

[buldozr]

Since the stock intake manifold and even aftermarket ffim are desighned as dry manifolds wouldn't there be fuel ditrbution and atomazation problems with running extra injectors?

you must not be a nitrous fan. The additional injector idea is extremely similar to a WET nitrous system, same principal, although in my opinion with an AIC it can be controlled moreso than the nitrous 'pills'. I dont see why people are discrediting something hotrodders have done for years.

 

[GrimJack]

Wet nitrous doesn't like to stay wet, unlike gasoline.

Furthermore, we aren't saying it won't work, just that it isn't as easy, neat, and clean as you think it is.

 

[7M-fanatic]

You guys sound like a bunch of chicken littles,
"Oh, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

Like all you have to do is think up reasons why sub-injectors won't work,
with little reguard to how well they work for the Japanese........

You have heard a term here, or seen a phrase there like 'fuel puddling',
and did not understand what it actually meant, or what application it was about.
(probably something about a cheezy V8, oh, I meant 'chevy')
So you think you know something !

I can just imagine what people in Japan think when they stumble across supramania,
and read some of these pathetic posts...........
There is hardly a 7M, or an RX-7 in Japan, that has been worked over to make big HP numbers,
that doesn't use them......

The truth is, sub-injectors do work, and work well.
Wether you use 1, 2, 3, or 6.
They don't need their own fuel rail, Earl's make #6 connectors that go on the end of a normal injector.
And even RC Engineering can do injectors in different sizes with hose barbs on the top, instead of O-rings.
HKS & GReddy both, sell the mounts, and the drivers.
And they been doing it longer than most of you been driving.
If GReddy put that option into the e-manage, it is a well proven system.

"Kill a motor".........
Only if you don't know how to tune,
But then again, as I have been seeing, you guys kill motors all the time anyway !

 

[GrimJack]

You guys sound like a bunch of chicken littles,
"Oh, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

Like all you have to do is think up reasons why sub-injectors won't work,
with little reguard to how well they work for the Japanese........

You have heard a term here, or seen a phrase there like 'fuel puddling',
and did not understand what it actually meant, or what application it was about.
(probably something about a cheezy V8, oh, I meant 'chevy')
So you think you know something !

I can just imagine what people in Japan think when they stumble across supramania,
and read some of these pathetic posts...........
There is hardly a 7M, or an RX-7 in Japan, that has been worked over to make big HP numbers,
that doesn't use them......

The truth is, sub-injectors do work, and work well.
Wether you use 1, 2, 3, or 6.
They don't need their own fuel rail, Earl's make #6 connectors that go on the end of a normal injector.
And even RC Engineering can do injectors in different sizes with hose barbs on the top, instead of O-rings.
HKS & GReddy both, sell the mounts, and the drivers.
And they been doing it longer than most of you been driving.
If GReddy put that option into the e-manage, it is a well proven system.

"Kill a motor".........
Only if you don't know how to tune,
But then again, as I have been seeing, you guys kill motors all the time anyway !

Dude, first and foremost, you need to cut out the personal insults and insinuations. They aren't helping.

Nobody has said it can't be done. Nobody has said that it hasn't been done umpteen times in the past.

What we ARE saying is that it's old technology, and inferior to the way we do it now.

I was around (and driving Supras, for that matter) when additional injector control was necessary, because you couldn't get a decent idle with anything over 550cc injectors - they spit out too much fuel even at the lowest settings. So, additional injectors that could be completely shut off was the best solution at the time. Injectors have gotten a lot better in the last 20 years, and our methods for using them have updated as well.

If you can provide well thought out reasons for why additional injectors is better, by all means, let us know. I have an open mind, and I'm willing to admit it when I'm wrong, I just want some proof.

 

[IJ.]

Yep I guess I'm just a fucking idiot that knows nothing and we're lucky to have you here to set us straight....

For someone that has NFI how the line pressure cable in an a340e functions you have a lot to teach us all.

I should have closed this after the third idiotic post on the subject, Yes Aux injectors can work NO they're not going to automatically kill a motor but the potential is there as I've outlined a few times.

It's 1980's technology and there's no reason to keep using them with modern controls available.