Did Toyota ever change headgasket torque?

Justin

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Mar 31, 2005
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I'm looking at a early model '91 with 88k on it. Stock head gasket and a one owner car. Did Toyota ever increase the torque on the head gaskets or was it at the 5x lbs the entire run of the line?

If it does have the low torque what's the consensus on re-torquing?
 

radiod

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Dec 13, 2007
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From what I know, most will torque the stock bolts to 75 ft/lbs. Beyond that I don't know what Toyota did in terms of year to year changes on that issue.
 

Poodles

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Jul 22, 2006
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No, was never changed. The community years ago did some research on the head bolts and came up with the 76ft/lb spec based off some testing of the bolts compared to the 2JZ IIRC. Wish I could find that old write up on it, but I think the link is dead.
 

GrimJack

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Poodles;1668108 said:
No, was never changed. The community years ago did some research on the head bolts and came up with the 76ft/lb spec based off some testing of the bolts compared to the 2JZ IIRC. Wish I could find that old write up on it, but I think the link is dead.

That was done by Reg Reimer in Alberta, Canada. Here's the link: http://www.suprasonic.org/public_html/sonictech/mk3/mk3_pmtn.html

And here's the text:
Reg Reimer said:
Recently I purchased a pair of new head bolts from my local Toyota dealership. One bolt from the 1995 Supra 2JZ-GTE engines, as well as a new bolt from the 7M-GTE. I then contracted a local certified engineering metallurgical company to perform tensile strength tests on the head bolts to compare yield strengths and torque values.

I have lab data reports based on the ASTM A370 tensile test, giving tensile strength, yield strength, ultimate load, yield load, as well as deformation data and maximum tightening torque values for the head bolts from the 2JZ GTE and 7M-GTE engines. Some results of the test are given below.

7M head bolt is: 12mm-1.25mm thread pitch {Property Class 10.9 grade 8} yield strength=147,353 PSI... tensile strength=160,550 PSI... ultimate load=70,198 N... % elongation=17... % reduction of area=66 2J head bolt is: 11mm-1.25mm thread pitch {Property Class 10.9 grade 8} yield strength=148,948 PSI... tensile strength=162,581 PSI... ultimate load=68,997 N... % elongation=19... % reduction of area=66

The metals used in the head bolts of the 7M & 2JZ engines are identical in metallurgy +/- manufacturing S.P.C. This is a good material; it stretches smoothly in the plastic region of the curve before it snaps.

By calculating the unit strain for each of the different areas of bolts based on the average yield strength, the following total elongation numbers were calculated. The 7M bolt has a total elongation of .0134" {.3399mm}, and the 2JZ bolt has a total elongation of .01093" {.2775mm}.

By comparing the elongation differences of the bolts, related to the corresponding different thickness of the aluminum in the engines cylinder heads, and allowing for the total length of the bolt shank plus 50% of the length of the threads, the only apparent difference is that the 2JZ bolt has 36 percent more thread than the 7M bolt does. The 7M & 2JZ bolts appear to be designed with the same steel to aluminum expansion stretch theory. I believe the bolt designs are different only because of the different ratio of the bolts metal area versus the thickness of the aluminum cylinder heads the bolt is designed to hold down. The torquing procedure for the two head bolts is also different, as is the head gasket

Toyota service manuals say that the 7M engines head bolt torque specification is 52 to 58 ft. lbs. According to my findings the 52 to 58 ft. lbs. specification for the 7M might be too low a torque value to keep the bolt in acceptable tension, not to mention the normal compression of the head gasket after time. As mentioned earlier many 7M engines that experience head gasket failures have many head bolts that can be removed from the engines failed cylinders by hand, or are very loose when removed.

My calculations show that the 7M head bolts when torqued to the factory specifications of 52 to 58 ft. lbs. is in very low tension related to the bolts actual yield curve. Calculations based on my test data show torque values for the 7M head bolt could be as high as 68 ft. lbs. to 72 ft. lbs. without putting the bolt into the plastic region. On a cold engine this extra torque would allow more tension on the head bolts after the head gasket compresses to normal operating thickness.

Many Supra owners that can afford it are upgrading their 7M engine to the expensive HKS stopper type metal head gasket for the 7M engine. This gasket comes in a number of different thick nesses. My Company stocks the HKS gaskets and I ship them all over the world. The HKS gasket will hold well to over 20 PSI of boost over 400 hp as sea level with upgraded fuel and turbochargers. The factory head bolt torque may be satisfactory with a metal head gasket since metal head gaskets do not deform as much as the soft OEM gasket used in the 7M. I would still recommend torquing the bolts to 72-ft. lbs. When upgrading to Metal head gaskets much must be considered with regard to machine work and the finish of the engine block deck and cylinder head gasket surface.
 

bioskyline

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this is from another toyota fourm, dont know if this true, but i did remember reading something similar years ago

"The reason for the higher torque is that they changed several things when they went to the 4v head that made it more prone to overheating and blowing the gasket but kept the torque the same (redesigned the EGR to stay in the head 1/2 way round the cylinder instead of 1/4 like the 5m. 4v head means more surface area to absorb heat. there's also a small coolant passage in the back that wasn't drilled. To top it all off, they went from asbestos head gaskets to graphite (which is a little weaker, I would assume replacement 5M gaskets, even from toyota, are graphite as well) With all that, they used the same head bolt torque, which is why the 7M blows the head gasket so often and why you need to use a higher torque. "

link to thread http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346439
 

roadboy

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im using shopkey5, tsb's showing iirc 1995 they decided to use a sealant, that apparently makes it seal better but torque still remains the same
 

Nick M

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bioskyline;1668263 said:
"The reason for the higher torque is that they changed several things when they went to the 4v head that made it more prone to overheating and blowing the gasket but kept the torque the same (redesigned the EGR to stay in the head 1/2 way round the cylinder instead of 1/4 like the 5m. 4v head means more surface area to absorb heat. there's also a small coolant passage in the back that wasn't drilled. To top it all off, they went from asbestos head gaskets to graphite (which is a little weaker, I would assume replacement 5M gaskets, even from toyota, are graphite as well) With all that, they used the same head bolt torque, which is why the 7M blows the head gasket so often and why you need to use a higher torque

The block had a tenency to cavitate in the rear when low on coolant. That isn't from the head. Most of the quote is baloney. I have read they wanted to do the asbestos gasket, but have seen no proof. Nor do I believe it. Graphite gaskets are strong, and used in many performance applications. All Toyota composite headgaskets have gone through updates. Whatever you can do to make something better will be done. In fact, the 4Runner and Truck with the 3.0 V6 had a head gasket campaign.
 

hvyman

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It was in the 1990's when cars stopped using it so its totally possible. Why would toyota sell the car like that. That had to have done harsh testing and had them blow. Maybe thats why the 89+ ecus are tuned better also.
 

GrimJack

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This is only rumor... however, scuttlebutt says that one possibility is Toyota did it deliberately to prevent harsh import taxes from the US Government.

In the mid 80's, US car manufacturers simply couldn't compete on quality, and their 'Buy American' advertising was starting to fail miserably. Domestic auto manufacturers turned to the government to level the playing field by increasing the cost of import cars. Toyota fought back by guaranteeing a higher defect rate. Toyota won the battle - if you can call it a win - and the higher import taxes were never implemented.
 

hvyman

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So they let supra go down the drain and then get a recall on the 4runner. Itd be nice to be able to actually contact 1 of the engineers. I meet 1 engineer but he didnt do anything with the engine.
 

Nick M

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hvyman;1668545 said:
So they let supra go down the drain and then get a recall on the 4runner.

Go down the drain? You do realize that most didn't blow their headgasket. As you see in the post above, the engine was used in many cars around the world. I am on my 5th Supra, and have had one go bad from my own intentional doing. At 75lb/ft, and no loose bolts, it isn't an issue. The 4Runner was recalled because of a known defect. When you have 5 blown gaskets, and all 5 are a different reason, that isn't a trend.
 

figgie

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Nick M;1668942 said:
Go down the drain? You do realize that most didn't blow their headgasket. As you see in the post above, the engine was used in many cars around the world. I am on my 5th Supra, and have had one go bad from my own intentional doing. At 75lb/ft, and no loose bolts, it isn't an issue. The 4Runner was recalled because of a known defect. When you have 5 blown gaskets, and all 5 are a different reason, that isn't a trend.

specifically

the torque spec was never an issue for OEM use. It becomes an issue when you start upping the ponies by increasing boost or removing EGR or removing this and that without knowing what the "mod" has done to the basic operation of the motor. I never blew an OEM HG since the time that I owned the car (1994). When i Upped the power, first order of business before upping power was MHG.
 

Justin

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figgie;1669166 said:
specifically

the torque spec was never an issue for OEM use. It becomes an issue when you start upping the ponies by increasing boost or removing EGR or removing this and that without knowing what the "mod" has done to the basic operation of the motor. I never blew an OEM HG since the time that I owned the car (1994). When i Upped the power, first order of business before upping power was MHG.

What constitutes "upping the ponies" in your book figgie? I don't know if I mentioned or not but all I'm planning on doing(for now of course) is an intake and exhaust from the turbo back. I'm more concerned about being able to drive this Supra from here to California if I want to. My last Supra was crazy fast but I was nervous to drive it to my parents place 2 hours away. I don't want to be nervous to drive this car anywhere!
 

Poodles

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Turbo back exhaust causes higher boost pressures, which means higher cylinder pressures, which means more power, which means more heat...

You get the picture.

Also of note is a 20 year old car that's well over 100K miles with an original cooling system that wasn't maintained (clogged radiator, worn/leaking fan clutch, missing fan shroud, etc). Then people expect it to be reliable when they push more power. Power = heat (there's a reason the veyron has 10 radiators)
 

Chaingun

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idk about anyone else but my car is bone stock under the hood, and it's headgasket went at just under 130k. I don't race it and i don't run her hard because it's my only car right now, and the original owner is 68 years old, i doubt he abused it. BHG are a general problem with the 7m even under dd use.
 

hvyman

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Nick M;1668942 said:
Go down the drain? You do realize that most didn't blow their headgasket. As you see in the post above, the engine was used in many cars around the world. I am on my 5th Supra, and have had one go bad from my own intentional doing. At 75lb/ft, and no loose bolts, it isn't an issue. The 4Runner was recalled because of a known defect. When you have 5 blown gaskets, and all 5 are a different reason, that isn't a trend.

I have yet to meet 1 supra owner or car that hasnt had a hg done in its time. #1 thing people think about with these cars.

All we got was supra and cressida too. Cressida wasnt a performance car and it only had ge's also.
 

Chaingun

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130k is just broken in, my old mazda b4000 pickup had 300k on the original motor, my 93 cavalier had almost 210k when i totaled it and it outran almost anything i put it up against, longevity of a car is hard to quantify. As far as my cooling system the rad is clean, the fan clutch is original and good, and the coolant flushed clean, no rust at all