Condensate in oil

[flubyux2]

So, this isn't about a supra but oil isnt supra specific. It's about my 79 trans am. I rebuilt the motor in 2002 and didn't complete it. It's sat inside a garage that was def very damp. It's seen almost a decades worth of winters with the motor open. No valve covers, distributor or spark plugs. I just got the car back (from Ohio to fla) and tried to prime the motor again. I saw drops of water dribble out ofthe rocker arms so I Immediatly stopped and reversed the drill to hopefully suck the water back out of the galleys. I drained the sump and I saw oil and water droplets emerging as I was unscrewing the plug. But as soon as I completely removed the plug, crystal clear water began gushing out. Easily half of what came out was water. At least 2 quarts worth. I was surprised that it was so pure-looking and not brown and rusty. Since it was NOT brown and rusty, should I believe that the internals are rust free? I think there is surface or flash rust on my bores because it's incredibly hard to crank over by hand... It feels like an 18:1 diesel... Based of my experience with cummins engines.

Right now, I've got the sump filled with 5qts of ATF. I've been priming it with that trying to dissolve debris and flush out moisture from the galleys as well as get everything lubes up with a nice detergent oil. It's coming out an opaque pink rather than clear red. I think it's picking up water... Possibly from the oil filter: it might still be holding some. I've also sprayed a few ounces of PB blaster into the spark plug holes and it's sitting right now.

My next step is to prime a bit more then drain the ATF and replace the filter, refill with fresh oil and filter, continue priming untill the oil comes clear, not milky. If it's still milky, I'll repeat the drain and fill/filter change. Is there anything else I should be doing? Am I wasting my time? Is my motor boned? It's NEVER been started, it's a fresh rebuild. Should I keep working the motor by hand trying to "loosen" up the reciprocating assembly?

 

[mkiiichip]

I am sure you dont want to remove the motor and completly disassemble it. I would just get as much contamination out as possible. Then run it for 5 min at idle. Change the oil and filter again, and get back on the road.

If you are looking for a complete piece of mind, that nothing is damaged, a complete tear-down is needed. If its something you want to get on the road, and the parts are not priceless or impossible to find, just run it.

 

[flubyux2]

Well it's not priceless by any means. The motor has good parts in it like the custom came and valvtrain mods. But there's nothin special about the short block. I can always do an lq4 swap. I just wanted to attempt reassembling it cuz it's been an unfinished project for a decade now.

I did prime it more yesterday. I also requisitioned the optima out of the supra and hooked it up. The motor turns over just fine. So it's not rusted solid or anything. I don't have the distributor in so I had to run the oil pump of my drill while I cranked. I wanted to make sure that I had ample opportunities to push any water out of the crank, rods and get lube everywhere possible. I was cranking it so long that my trans puked out about a pint of ATF since my lines are unhooked.

I think I'm going to do what you said and just flush it all out. Do a budget oil change and run it till it warms up and try to flash evap more moisture and change the oil/filter again. I hope to get footage of this thing running in the near future.

 

[IJ.]

Go buy 4>5 qt's of denatured alcohol, flush that through with a drill then leave the engine open for a day or so as it'll flash off being quite volatile then repeat with some cheap engine Oil you're willing to dump without running.

(The alcohol is hygroscopic so will bond with the water and carry it out of the engine)

As long as it hasn't been sitting with Oil between the bearings and crank it should be fine.

 

[jdub]

After that, I'd flush through a gallon of kerosene or ATF.

 

[flubyux2]

I had wondered about some alcohol but didn't pursue it due to the idea that it might attack some of the materials inside the motor. Some of the seals are rubber and idk how the babbit will react to the alky. If my internals shan't be harmed, then perhaps I'll cycle that thru after this course of ATF.

You think I should do diesel next before normal oil or another course of ATF?

I wish I had a goldenrod water separator on this motor like on my truck... I could fill it with a couple gallons of diesel and just pump it with the drill and the suspended water would be trapped in the filter.

 

[IJ.]

The alcohol isn't going to sit for any length of time so isn't going to effect anything.
(Has to be denatured/metholated spirits)

But be certain to prime the engine with Oil before you turn it over as the Alcohol will remove ALL traces of lubrication.

 

[flubyux2]

Ok gotcha. So as long as there's alky inside, the motor is NOT to be turned. Not untill it's been flushed with oil again. Now, idk if my rods are rifle drilled or not so idk if they will be flushed with alky if the oil ports aren't moving. But it may not matter tho.

 

[flubyux2]

I think I found the culprit. The shaker scoop has a gap in the weather seal right above the distributor hole. Plus, it has a built-in drain hole at the front of the base which drains right on top of the manifold. Since the motor is pitched rearward, all the rainwater must be running right into the open distributor hole. So it might be likely that the water was just rain water from the week before.

Today, I got a gallon of denatured alky and poured it in after draining the ATF. I installed a new filter as well. I pumped the alky thru the motor for about 5-10min. It did come out hazy/cloudy looking so I think that's the standing water being captured. I removed the filter and poured it out. It was all alky except a few oz of remaining ATF. Then I ran the pump and forced the alky outthe oil filter pedestal... It's evaporating off my driveway lol then I pulled the drain plug and got a few ounces more. Then I reversed my shop-vac and blew fresh air into the oil fill for about 10min untill the air coming out stopped reeking of alky. I'm letting it sit over night wide open, drain plug out, fill cap off and valve covers off. I DID plug the distributor hole though.

Will I be able to fill it back up with oil tomo or isthat too soon??

 

[IJ.]

Think I'd let it sit another day, at worst the Al will just dilute the oil a bit but as you're NOT going to run the engine on the cheap Oil you put in next it'd be ok either way.

 

[flubyux2]

Yeah I suppose I'll do that. I may or may not fire it up on this oil. I def do want to make sure the motor is actually capable of running before I waste too much time on it. Whether or not I Try to start it on this next batch of oil, it certainly won't be driving around, let alone idling for more than a couple minutes. I still need to install the rest of the cooling system too.

 

[BTNH-LC]

If you still have any milky oil, there is a product from BG that I usually use when I get a car in that has water in the oil. It's called 109 Compression restore. Though it's meant for carbon build up, it's great for cleaning out everything. You can probably find a shop near you that carries it and they can probably sell you a can. Make sure if you do try it to only run the car for a maximum of 20 min with it idling.

 

[te72]

If you still have any milky oil, there is a product from BG that I usually use when I get a car in that has water in the oil. It's called 109 Compression restore. Though it's meant for carbon build up, it's great for cleaning out everything. You can probably find a shop near you that carries it and they can probably sell you a can. Make sure if you do try it to only run the car for a maximum of 20 min with it idling.

Might wanna run that one by Jetjock, I've learned a lot reading his threads (and being on the receiving end of at least one of them haha), and learned to be wary of magical products that seem to fix everything without explaining exactly how or why. If it works, great, but I've gotten in the habit of wanting to know just *why* something works. More often than not there seem to be unintended consequences behind most of these mechanic-in-a-bottle fixes.

 

[BTNH-LC]

That's a good way of looking at it. Personally I've been using BG products on my own cars and on customer cars (my shop carries it) for a few years now and I've never had problems with it. All of their products are just cleaners and conditioners. The only thing that you have to watch out for with the compression restore is if the engine has alot of miles then all the gunk can drop into the oil pan and clog the pick up screen but if it's a fresh build, you shouldn't have any carbon build up. I will run this by Jetjock and see what his opinion is though.

 

[BTNH-LC]

I asked Jetjock what his opinion was and this is the answer he gave me...

They make good stuff. Professional strength. I've heard the fuel system cleaner (BG 44?) formula has been changed in the last few years and isn't as good as it used to be but other than that I've heard nothing but good about their products. Hope that helps...

 

[jetjock]

Gotta cover my ass

It is my opinion BG in general makes quality products. I won't claim this particular one is applicable to the situation but from what I've heard it's a good cleaner. It certainly won't hurt anything. That said, even though BG stuff is stronger than run-of-the-mill auto store formulas, there remains no miracle in a can...

 

[BTNH-LC]

^^^ Agreed