Coming 2009 from MoTeC

[figgie]

New ECU's and other goodies.

The M1 series ECU.

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload.php/M1 ECU.pdf?docid=2894

this time though they have more options. I see 3 autosport connectors on the pro stuff and three versions of the pro M1 series. so I can already thing of what that is going to cost.

The thing about this version.

This is going to require some major computer skills as it requires programming for customization. Folks, this is as close as having the source code to an EMS here with direct customization of the software. In other words NOT for the faint of heart or for those lacking computer skills.


PDM15/30

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload.php/PDM15-30.pdf?docid=2896

Unlike the PDM16/32 (Which I own one). It is the same exact software except in a plastic enclosure (presumably to bring cost down.. SIGNIFICANTLY) using the same AMP connectors as the Mx00 series ECU instead of the pricer Autosport connectors.

and more stuff!

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload.php/New Products 09.pdf?docid=2895

ADL3!
Wideband over CANbus
Video Capture System (Uses the MoTeC inputs as overlays, perfect sync).

Lots of stuff from the folks down under!

 

[upgradedsupra]

Damn Figgie! They just keep coming up with new stuff making the other stuff old. lol I want the PDM 30 as we talked about but it will be on a list for the future as other changes are happening.

Duane

 

[John Reed]

New ECU's and other goodies.

The M1 series ECU.

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload.php/M1 ECU.pdf?docid=2894

this time though they have more options. I see 3 autosport connectors on the pro stuff and three versions of the pro M1 series. so I can already thing of what that is going to cost.

The thing about this version.

This is going to require some major computer skills as it requires programming for customization. Folks, this is as close as having the source code to an EMS here with direct customization of the software. In other words NOT for the faint of heart or for those lacking computer skills.


PDM15/30

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload.php/PDM15-30.pdf?docid=2896

Unlike the PDM16/32 (Which I own one). It is the same exact software except in a plastic enclosure (presumably to bring cost down.. SIGNIFICANTLY) using the same AMP connectors as the Mx00 series ECU instead of the pricer Autosport connectors.

and more stuff!

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload.php/New Products 09.pdf?docid=2895

ADL3!
Wideband over CANbus
Video Capture System (Uses the MoTeC inputs as overlays, perfect sync).

Lots of stuff from the folks down under!

Not quite true on the M1 series, I will attempt to lay it out in laymans terms (there is a lot going on and being sorted out still on these, so bear with me).

There are three "tiers" to the capability, and below I will describe each one briefly. Each level of capability is available on all the boxes in the M1 range (save for perhaps the M110, which is a ways from being done and may have a special situation to keep the cost down)

The lowest of these three tiers will be boxes specifically programmed by Motec to handle various platforms (such as a Supra/Toyota firmware, an LS Chevy firmware, etc) where the firmware is specific for these vehicles. You will be able to tune these ECUs just like any current Motec, however you will not be able to take say a LS series box and use it on a Supra. You can however use it on any LS engine supported. The idea here is to reduce the cost by reducing the company resources you have access/need for. Engineering costs are better spread evenly based on demand. Tuning will be very similar to what a Motec tuner is currently used to.

The second tier will be be very similar to what the current Motec lineup is. Motec will program the box with a fairly generic firmware, covering most common models out there. As new models are done, they will be added to the website and these "packages" can be loaded to the box. You will then select ref/sync pattern, and other setup items just like you would the current ECU range. You cannot however write custom firmware for this "tier" ECU, nor can it be upgraded. If you want something that isn't in one of the growing number of Motec "packages", you will have to do just like we currently do. Submit a request and wait for it to go through the channels of being written, tested and added as a Motec approved firmware package. This is how things work now, and once something is added, everyone has access to it.


The third tier will have the capability that Figgie has described, where it can be programmed almost at the source code level (meaning we are going to be pretty much writing our own custom firmware for applications if we want), BUT this at first is only going to be done by Motec, and after that selected dealers/teams (I put my name on the list already) will attend a probably two week training course (that will require testing to pass) to be able to have the software and tools to program the ECU at this level. With this setup, if you have a custom application you can have your own firmware written, that nobody else has access to. Even Motec will not know what your firmware contains if you do not want them to. If you want a 200x200 fuel map, then you simply make one. Perhaps you are the first to sort out the newest Ferrari model, then nobody else will have access to it unless they repeat all the work (or wait for Motec as a company to characterize that vehicle).

Hope that helps break it down, it is hard to sum it up in a relatively short space. Lets just say it is going to be ground breaking, exciting and also may put Motec quality into the hands of those who previously have not been able to afford it. Systems are projected to start hitting the market mid to late summer in limited numbers, with more to follow as the year progresses.

 

[John Reed]

Also, the new LTC 4.9 lambda module can be used on the current line of ECU/Dash products over the CAN BUS. A great way to get leading edge wideband technology in a small package (and cheaper than the onboard lambda option to boot!).

Let me know if you guys have any questions or need any Motec gear...

 

[figgie]

John

thanks for clearing that up....

I wasn't clear on my post about the full on "source code" access on the "PRO" level equipment (M170, M180 and M190) only.

At least they are starting to see that everyone would like MoTeC reliability without the "stagerring" price.

Brilliant idea on the platform specific EMSs. Definetly a good way to keep costs down and hopefully not get swampped with, I can't get Ref/Sync to sync up.. help!

 

[John Reed]

John

thanks for clearing that up....

I wasn't clear on my post about the full on "source code" access on the "PRO" level equipment (M170, M180 and M190) only.

At least they are starting to see that everyone would like MoTeC reliability without the "stagerring" price.

Brilliant idea on the platform specific EMSs. Definetly a good way to keep costs down and hopefully not get swampped with, I can't get Ref/Sync to sync up.. help!

"Pro" level access will be available on any of the ECUs in the range (save for perhaps the M110). Conversely, you could potentially have say a "LS" only M190. The flexibility of access is limitless.

I should also clarify on the fully open boxes, that does not mean the end user gets to jump in and write their own firmware. They will work with a trained "system integrator" (if they are not one themselves), to have the firmware written for their custom needs/wants/application. They then own the box and their own custom setup. I am guessing unless you have a race team or work with some off the wall projects (or perhaps Ron, just because) you will not be investing the money in both buying a top level box and also hiring a system integrator to build you firmware for it.

 

[jt2ma71]

LOL I didn't even know about this thread 'til now I just happen to check the MoTeC site while in class at work yesterday Then started txting John about them this morning
Lots of good stuff!!!:drool:

 

[John Reed]

LOL I didn't even know about this thread 'til now I just happen to check the MoTeC site while in class at work yesterday Then started txting John about them this morning
Lots of good stuff!!!:drool:

I was thinking ahead for you Ron.

 

[John Reed]

PDM15/30

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload.php/PDM15-30.pdf?docid=2896

Unlike the PDM16/32 (Which I own one). It is the same exact software except in a plastic enclosure (presumably to bring cost down.. SIGNIFICANTLY) using the same AMP connectors as the Mx00 series ECU instead of the pricer Autosport connectors.

Sorry Figgie, not to nitpick your post (thanks by the way for highlighting all the new products coming out), but the PDM 15/30 feature the same magnesium enclosures as the new M1 series ECU. They did use AMP connectors to bring the cost down (quite a bit as you mentioned). I think the cost of the 30 is similar or slightly less than a autosport 16. I just ordered up a 30 today for a Supra!

 

[figgie]

Lol john, someone I know?

Should be nice especially if they have other MoTeC stuff. That 4 gauge autosport crimper is pneaumatic and as such, pricey. Though I have seen them for sale at aerospace auctions. The battery stud is welcomed for ease of installation.

 

[Kristian_Wraae]

I just saw this now. That is great news.

I almost bought an M800 yesterday. That would have been a major bummer.

Now I'll definitely wait a bit.

Thank God for me being such a lazy cheap ass…

 

[John Reed]

Lol john, someone I know?

Should be nice especially if they have other MoTeC stuff. That 4 gauge autosport crimper is pneaumatic and as such, pricey. Though I have seen them for sale at aerospace auctions. The battery stud is welcomed for ease of installation.

Nobody you know, yet. But it is a full drag Mk4, starting from a bare shell. Lots of goodies save for an SDL (had to make some concessions in the budget to get the overall package I wanted). We are doing an M800, CDI8, PDM30, E888, individual EGT, and the usual slew of sensors you would expect a guy like me to want given the chance to do so. I chose the Racepak IQ3 for the display, as I feel it is one of the best values right now (and the freshest looking display).

I almost went with the autosport PDM, but the cost difference of both the box itself and then the termination was just more than I wanted to take from the budget for this project.

 

[John Reed]

I just saw this now. That is great news.

I almost bought an M800 yesterday. That would have been a major bummer.

Now I'll definitely wait a bit.

Thank God for me being such a lazy cheap ass…

Depending on your time frame, don't expect M1 series stuff to start rolling out to the public until at least June (and depending on the box you want, it will be later than that). The first boxes out will be the M170/M190 autosport stuff, which is way above what I suspect the average guy will want/need. The M150 Sport is going to be "M800" level box, and it is due out late 2009.

 

[Kristian_Wraae]

Depending on your time frame, don't expect M1 series stuff to start rolling out to the public until at least June (and depending on the box you want, it will be later than that). The first boxes out will be the M170/M190 autosport stuff, which is way above what I suspect the average guy will want/need. The M150 Sport is going to be "M800" level box, and it is due out late 2009.

I can wait.

 

[figgie]

I can wait.

I sure hope so because you are looking at Q3/09 for the M800 equal in the M1. Unless you want to spend a heck of a lot more than the M880 (not the m800). Just in autosport connection addition, my guess is that you are looking at probably nearly $6000 for the M170.

the M190, more than likely out of reach for any of us mere mortals here.

M190
24 injector drivers (12 low + 12 high or 24 high)
12 ignition outputs.

Last time I saw spec like those are in the unicorn of the Bosch MS5.2 and the cost of that is €22,050 which in todays currency exchange rate, you are looking at $30,589 for the ECU alone.

John

looking at the spec sheet. The M130 is the closest from an output perspective save for knock outputs.

I am thinking there is going to be a significant hike in price considering all the additional outputs/inputs and 3 CANBus lines on the 140/150/180/190.At least now there are ethernet based!

 

[upgradedsupra]

I sure hope so because you are looking at Q3/09 for the M800 equal in the M1. Unless you want to spend a heck of a lot more than the M880 (not the m800). Just in autosport connection addition, my guess is that you are looking at probably nearly $6000 for the M170 and the M190.

M190
24 injector drivers (12 low + 12 high)
12 ignition outputs.

Last time I saw spec like those are in the unicorn of the Bosch MS5.2 and the cost of that is €22,050 which in todays currency exchange rate, you are looking at $30,589!

John

looking at the spec sheet. The M130 is the closest from an output perspective save for knock outputs.

I am thinking there is going to be a significant hike in price considering all the additional outputs/inputs and 3 CANBus lines on the 140/150/180/190.At least now there are ethernet based!

Many more features but something that the everyday person would use..? Or..other MoTec users would need?! :icon_bigg

 

[figgie]

Many more features but something that the everyday person would use..? Or..other MoTec users would need?! :icon_bigg

24 injector drivers.....

Perhaps if running nitro methane or 2000hp Methanol cars.

The configuration point of it.....That would have to be John R to tell you as that I am sure is not free

Now with that siad, I can see where something like the M190 would be needed for say....The latest BMW with Dual Vanos, DBW over CANbus TB (which would need to be rev engineered and then programmed to the MoTeC, should beeasily done with a bit of CANBus sniffer capture), Direct injection and all the other electronic doodas that currently there is nothing that can interface with it.

Hell

these EMS are starting to be more like the full fledge computer networks.

 

[Kristian_Wraae]

Which models will be user programmable? I mean which models can you write scripts for yourself? All of them or will it be an add on?

I think it is a brilliant move by MoTeC to open up for this possibility. Could very well take some load of their own developement section and a sort open source community could arise.

I think I'll go for the M170. But let's see the pricing first.

 

[figgie]

Which models will be user programmable? I mean which models can you write scripts for yourself? All of them or will it be an add on?

I think it is a brilliant move by MoTeC to open up for this possibility. Could very well take some load of their own developement section and a sort open source community could arise.

I think I'll go for the M170. But let's see the pricing first.

Open source community?

Apparently you misunderstood me and John. The setup software is not free as it requires that anyone that uses it take a MoTeC course which is currently at two weeks. The source code is still MoTeC IP'd and also requires training classes to be attended by the user/developer before Microsof.. I mean MoTeC before being considered giving you the keys to the castle. The only thing that is yours is the physical script that a user creates meaning you. If John created it for you/your application. It is in no way, yours or free. The new MoTeC allows for TIGHTLY controlled security which means that if John R creates something and he was the one to put the time in to reverse engineer it (say Multiple DBW on a CANbus channel like Lambo's). Rest assured that it will not be read by anyone else unless you do physical rev eng at the hardware layer, figure out the encyption tech used by MoTeC, Then figure out the key pairs required for the encryption. Then, rev eng the machine code to something that is readable.


The chance of this program even getting remote close to open source is best said, go play the lottery as you will have better chances there.

Now with that said,

As been shown with the Mx00 ecu. The need for customization is minimal unless you are trying to drive some of the more exotic cars (lambo, Ferrari, BMW with their individual TB for each cylinder, Direct injection Gasoline engines etc). On the MKIII. hell really all that is needed is inputs and outputs and perhaps option to throw in DBW.

 

[Kristian_Wraae]

Well I was just reading from the MoTeC website:

Setup is used to customise the functionality of the ECU,
providing an unprecedented level of control. It allows the
user to add Tables, Parameters and Channels and to enter
‘Script’ that defines how the ECU operates. The Script is a
‘C’ like programming language that allows entry of logic,
calculations and algorithms.
For most customers it is not necessary to use the Setup
software becauseMoTeC will provide flexible configurations
for many applications, and will also offer a service to
customise the operation of an ECU for the user.
If the user would prefer to perform their own ECU
customisation, they can be trained in the use of Setup.
MoTeC will also support third party developers that can
provide customisation services to end users.

It didn't say that the setup would only be accessible to a select few.

Your sure know how to put it....

What I meant by open sourse was that users could write scripts to the benefit of each other (and eventually MoTeC). But I guess this is just $$$ after all.

Anyway looks like a powerfull ECU and I'm not buying any M8xx stuff before the M1's are ready.